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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4530
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| Posted: 15 April 2024 at 5:54pm | IP Logged | 1
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Looking at '90s comic art there seemed to be a massive increase in near Hulk-sized muscle guys firing off twin assault rifles, one in each paw, usually not even looking in the direction either is firing, with many shell casings flying about. A far cry from the old Two Gun Kid and his dual small sized shootin' irons, more like the worst Howling Commandos leaping up scene bellowing Wa-Hooo! at the top of their lungs and firing in all directions.
I'm no gun expert, and I guess I can appreciate the tree trunk like arms necessary to take automatic rifle kickback, but stuff like that, Punisher, Cable or similar character, are why I rarely set foot in a comic book shop for a couple of decades. Aside from sheer arm strength, perhaps not unlike for an archer character, why were so many of these dudes, well... muscle bound? I've seen those weight lifter type guys in real life a few times and they are very slow movers. Wouldn't these gun toting seekers of scum to remove from the world be terrible targets? Not just the speed factor but the size. I had a grandfather who was a sharp shooter in WWII and he was neither large or slow (if he had been I would never have known).
I remember a funny Simonson FF cover where they have ludicrously big guns and I wonder if that was a point where at least some wanted to call time on this development of maturity. I call that the 'extreme age' of comics for a number of reasons of which this is only one, but c'mon, didn't that stuff look stupid even to kids? I don't think even G.I. Joe comics which had a fairly big fantasy element had that kind of huge angry guy blasting away with two M-15s type of scene ever. If you wanted to attract intelligent readers Dirty Harry on steroids should accomplish the opposite.
I have read comics with the Punisher in where he is used intelligently, in Namor and including the Guardians Of The Galaxy future where there is a sort of gang all clad like him, but the amount of times he, like Wolverine (or worse yet, The Beyonder) were special guests in other comics was, well, not usually too special. I wouldn't be seen reading something with some of those covers (and Hembeck thought holding a Godzilla comic at a check out line was uncool)!
I guess someone firing off two heavy arms pieces like that simultaneously isn't quite the ridiculous concept someone firing two bows and arrows at once would be, but not that far off from it either. I hope they didn't send those comics to actual soldiers as replicating such a tableaux in the real world could easily be instant death. Just basically really dumb looking stuff, especially so on the t-shirts they were hawking!
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 15 April 2024 at 6:32pm
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Michael Casselman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1220
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| Posted: 15 April 2024 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 2
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Grotesque anatomy is a 90's Comic Art trope at this point. Veiny, ballooned-out muscles on men, women with similarly shaped breasts and a 12 inch-looking waist, impossible body poses, etc.
'Actual soldiers' weren't typically carrying around the exaggerated weapons these artists drew. Plus, they're trained on the proper care, usage, cleaning, aim, breathing, trigger squeeze and other aspects of weapon usage. Keeping them 'up and downrange', clearing them of stray rounds and proper targeting and sighting of targets. Nfn, but I'm no musclebound specimen and I was able to handle the kick of an M16A2 just fine once I got used to how it feels.
The closest I ever saw 'comics' used in an instructional context of the military was in the pages of PM Magazine, and even then it was drawn by artists like Murphy Anderson and Joe Kubert, who weren't of the ilk that couldn't draw a body without making it look like a steroid freak and took the time to research what weapons and vehicles looked like..
Edited by Michael Casselman on 15 April 2024 at 6:57pm
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 15 April 2024 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | 3
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I've appreciated what I've seen of those PS/PM Magazines, Murphy Anderson covers mainly, and some Will Eisner art.
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Neil Lindholm
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Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
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| Posted: 17 April 2024 at 1:30pm | IP Logged | 4
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When I was in the military, the primary infantry weapon was the Colt C7 (American M16A3), which fired 5.56X45mm NATO rounds. You could barely feel them. The C9 LMG also fired the same ammo and, although it was physically heavy, the kick was nothing as well.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15804
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| Posted: 17 April 2024 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 5
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If you make the feet and legs big enough, no gun is too large.
*Edited to crop some extraneous blank space from the picture
Edited by Peter Martin on 17 April 2024 at 1:44pm
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Paul Wills
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Joined: 18 August 2018
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| Posted: 17 April 2024 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 6
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I've never understood the appeal of comic book superheroes' need for big guns. What makes a superhero special is their powers. Why would they need guns? 90's was so overrun with that concept. It's like if Wolverine decided to start toting guns. What's the point?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 17 April 2024 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | 7
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Guns, chains, spikes, skulls. And pouches. All fun to draw—but not all the time!
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Petter Myhr Ness
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Joined: 02 July 2009
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| Posted: 17 April 2024 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | 8
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I've seen Wolverine toting a gun. Even dumber, someone at DC created a Green Lantern who used a gun!
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4530
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| Posted: 17 April 2024 at 4:31pm | IP Logged | 9
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Is there anything of the phallic symbol psychology to the craze for these images... the bigger supposedly the better? I seem to remember a scene in Dirty Harry (which I watched soooo long ago, and only once) where he has a particularly large handgun on somebody at very close range... like a smaller gun wouldn't kill them just as much? The 'punk' was reacting to how big the gun was if my memory of the scene is at all accurate.
Lots of constipation and straining at stool expressions seem to accompany the really big gun craze, maybe they really just needed dietary consultations. :^)
There was a scene in The Magnificent Seven early on that totally blew that movie for me and I couldn't enjoy any of it past that (unlike Seven Samurai). It's Yul Bryner and/or somebody else shooting at snipers they have no way of knowing are there except possibly via sound while riding on this wagon, bullseyes all and the baddies fall spectacularly. Magic guns, magic bullets? Right off the bat those guys are super powered ala Daredevil and Hawkeye combined and I don't buy anything else to do with them from there, could care less if they even seem in danger. Others hail it (as well as Dirty Harry) as classics alongside The Shootist, Serpico or The Godfather and I, well... don't. The Transporter was fun at least, however unlikely, obvious good and bad as well ala Death Wish.
I have no major criticisms about responsible people having rifles around if there's a need, obvious in many places that are rural, but I notice that a lot of what is sold (even collected) in modern times are rifles that look as 'military grade' and dark as possible... I suppose if they can make them look bigger that might spur sales too. It's kind of hard to relate that to my experience growing up with a hunter in the family. I learned a few basics of loading, cocking and firing your standard wood stock hunter's rifle, and even shot a handgun once (successfully hitting the target first shot, probably total beginner's luck plus great instruction; no Yul Bryner magic). The handgun particularly had a lot of a kick to it and I had to be prepared for that and seeing someone firing two of those a few times per hand seems unlikely to me. Along with any kickback never shown, the whole aiming thing seems quite absent with a lot of these super-shooters! Props to Deathstroke The Terminator or The Vigilante at DC that I remember them actually aiming.
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Trevor Smith
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| Posted: 17 April 2024 at 7:50pm | IP Logged | 10
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All the crap sticking up out of Cable's back makes him look
like a knife block.
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 20 April 2024 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | 11
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There was a scene in The Magnificent Seven early on that totally blew that movie for me and I couldn't enjoy any of it past that (unlike Seven Samurai). It's Yul Bryner and/or somebody else shooting at snipers they have no way of knowing are there except possibly via sound while riding on this wagon, bullseyes all and the baddies fall spectacularly. Magic guns, magic bullets? Right off the bat those guys are super powered ala Daredevil and Hawkeye combined and I don't buy anything else to do with them from there, could care less if they even seem in danger. ••• You do not describe any scene I recall.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4530
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| Posted: 20 April 2024 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 12
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I hope I'm mis-remembering that, or somehow mis-saw/mis-read it. Shooting snipers in windows and/or on rooftops without even looking from a moving wagon?
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