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James Wright
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1062
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| Posted: 12 August 2005 at 8:02pm | IP Logged | 1
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How would a "civillian" even know about it. =\
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Francesco Vanagolli
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005
Location: Italy
Posts: 3130
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| Posted: 13 August 2005 at 12:00am | IP Logged | 2
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In these years, I have learned that the DeFalco run on FF is one of the most controversial in the history of Marvel. There is who hates it 'cause the several shocking events (Alicia is a Skrull, Reed dies...), and who love it 'cause it was an old fashioned comic book. I am a member of the 2nd category. Last time i saw the FF they were dying for the Skrull aging rays. I discovered them again when Susan was crying in Latveria in front of dust formerly known as Reed Richards.
And I liked that comic book! I have followed the title since that story (and I never dropped it), besides I found the backissues. I still like that run, but in my opinion Tom made a mistake... I have a sort of "rule of writing": never begin your run with a shocking event, or people will remember only that, and not the stories.
I admit, I was not so glad for the Johnny/Alicia relationship, but I didn't want to see it ends that way: a Skrull... Not a good idea for me.
The following stories were great, but I'll never like the start of the run.
By the way, DeFalco is one of my favorite writer, and the LAST HERO STANDING miniseries is the best Marvel Comic I have read in months.
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Brett Stuart
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 June 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 88
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| Posted: 13 August 2005 at 12:46am | IP Logged | 3
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Personally, I wish more had been done to explore the relationship
between Alicia and the Silver Surfer. During J.M. Dematteis' run
on Silver Surfer, Alicia and the Silver Surfer entered into a
relationship when she thought that Ben Grimm was dead (along with all
the other non-mutant heroes) after Onslaught. While Dematties'
writing often feels a little preachy and heavy-handed to me, I
thought the way he presented their relationship to be quite well
done. I remember in particular one issue where, as the Silver
Surfer lay dying, Alicia considers her feelings for both Ben and the
Surfer. While Alicia and Ben had a relationship which was gentle
and caring, like a marriage of many long years, her relationship with
the Silver Surfer was more fiery and impulsive, like two young
lovers.
Unfortunately, Silver Surfer was cancelled shortly after Heroes
Reborn. Claremont touched upon the Surfer/Alicia relationship
once upon taking over Fantastic Four, then promptly forgot about
it. I believe it was Kurt Busiek and Erik Larsen who effectively
ended it in the first issue of their new Defenders series, although the
Surfer did stalk, er, I mean, pined after Alicia for several more
issues.
It's too bad that whole plot line was so quickly dumped. I would
have loved to see in-depth how Ben Grimm truly felt, especially knowing
that Alicia was receiving the "physical" satisfaction he could never
give her. It would have been interesting to see what Alicia's
final choice would have been: True love with Ben Grimm or passion
and romance with the Surfer? Guess we'll never know . . .
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11251
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| Posted: 13 August 2005 at 6:15am | IP Logged | 4
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Wasn`t the Walt Simonson run the one that had Ghost Rider and Wolverine join become part of the FF? crass marketing at it`s most evil!
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Richard Callaghan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 July 2005
Posts: 343
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| Posted: 13 August 2005 at 6:17am | IP Logged | 5
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It was, but I always thought of it as a witty send-up of Marvel's growing obsession with cheap sales ploys. They even changed the tagline to "The World's Most Commercial Comic Magazine!"
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Brandon Carter
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2338
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| Posted: 13 August 2005 at 8:59am | IP Logged | 6
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JB said: Worth noting, I suppose, that by the time I left the FF I had reached a rythm with the characters that I was literally making it up as I went along. Letting the characters "tell" me where the stories were going to go, with very little actually plotting out beyond the issue I was working on. General ideas of where I needed to end up, but nothing specific.
-------------------------
JB, at the time that you left FF, did you have anything in mind yet for the 25th anniversary issue (296) or issue 300? Both of these were right around the corner when you left.
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Chad Carter
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005
Posts: 9584
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| Posted: 13 August 2005 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | 7
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I think it would have been unique to have The Thing find a girlfriend who wasn't blind. That hot Thundra loved Grimm despite his monstrous appearance. Why not an Inhuman who thought Grimm was sexy? One of the big problems with big-name comics is an adherance to a status quo about relationships. If they ain't married, switch them around, that's what I'd do if I was writing the stories. Find new dynamics. Have Lois Lane run around the track with the Human Tornado a couple of times. As long as the relationship is handled in a way that illustrates good health, or for plot purposes bad health, there's no reason the 3D Man shouldn't be menaging with himself and Carol Danvers.
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Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2712
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| Posted: 13 August 2005 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 8
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the only problem i had with defalco's solution was that very solution
was done at dc with the legion where it was revealed a character had
married a shape changing spy who had been disguising as one of the
regular characters of the book, only the spy had really fallen in love
with the hero etc, etc.
other than that, i immensely enjoyed defalco and ryan's run on the ff
with the antman serving as tech guy and carrying a torch for sue and
having to compete with namor. while sue was unflagging in her devotion
and persistance that reed was still alive. defalco is clunky with his
dialogue, but he's a fun writer. i think his comics would be loads more
popular if we were reaching beyond the comic store market.
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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 13 August 2005 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | 9
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I never had a problem ewith it, since Lyja (the skrull), wound up becoming an importent part of the book.But it did screw up Alicia for a long time. Putting her into character limbo for a long time.
I loved the Defalco/Ryan run on FF. Definately one of my favorites. Tom Defalco is one of my favorite comicbook writers. Did anybody read the sadly shortlived Fantastoc Five?
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 13 August 2005 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 10
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I just don't think Johnny should ever get married, much less to Alicia (or a
Skrull spy, for that matter). It's the same reason a lot of people here,
including myself, view Peter Parker's marriage as a huge mistake. Johnny
should eternally be a cocky young hotshot, waking up every morning
thinking about how his powers can help him a) beat the bad guys, and b) get
the girl, whichever one it is these days.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132334
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| Posted: 13 August 2005 at 6:35pm | IP Logged | 11
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Your take on Johnny's love life is a wee bit off. Traditionally, he doesn't get the girl -- at least, not permanently. Something always happens to break up his romances.
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 13 August 2005 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | 12
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I said he would think about how he could use his powers to get the girl. I
never said he would succeed at it.
edit: A bit of clarification. Johnny's relationships with women should be
intense but eventually burn out (pun intended). I enjoyed Karl Kesel's recent
fill-in where it was posited that Johnny's instability with women is more than
just youthful impulsiveness; he's also afraid that if he was with a woman
long enough, some moment would come where he would lose control of his
powers and watch that woman and whatever home they'd built together burn
up.
Edited by Eric Kleefeld on 13 August 2005 at 6:49pm
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