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Kor Watkins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 765
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| Posted: 03 July 2007 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 1
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I miss Mike Parobeck! He was an amazing artist!
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Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2712
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| Posted: 03 July 2007 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 2
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It was Robinson, Goyer, and Johns in their "respect" for the characters
made them adulterers, panicking and killing a villain, belittling fellow
member Johnny Thunder, and basically beat the legacy angle to death as
well as upping the body count of various heroes at DC. Give me the
Parobeck JSA any day that was about showing them as relevant, heroic
and making a difference despite their ages. I read the series as presenting
the argument people have against the characters (they're too old) and
then showing the counter argument, they are the JSA and superheroes, a
little age may slow them down but through magic spells and science-
fiction, they still have what it takes and they're still heroes. Each arc
reclaimed yet another JSA-er from retirement.
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5088
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| Posted: 03 July 2007 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 3
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I agree, Ed.
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Chad Carter
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005
Posts: 9584
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| Posted: 03 July 2007 at 8:37am | IP Logged | 4
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God damn. I'd just discovered the dude reading the two JUSTICE SOCIETY runs. One of those fellas like JB who had the temerity to draw superheroes in the most dire situations grinning their heads off. Because it's fun to be a superhero, in their minds.
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Ron Chevrier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1641
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| Posted: 03 July 2007 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 5
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I'm not putting down Parobeck's work on the book. I merely wanted to point out that the tone of the book didn't sit well with me.
These classic heroes were reclaimed from retirement as you state,
but were then immediately cancelled just as they finally got back
together as a team, and then led off to Zero Hour, where the editorial
axe fell very heavily upon them, rendering them ineffective for a good
long time.
Those writers wtih whom you seem to find so much distaste are
responsible for the JSA's current resurgence in popularity. Don't get
me wrong, there are things about the current work that I object
to (Infinite Crisis is a standout), and nothing would please me more
than to read about the original JSA. But short of that, I'm just happy
that there is a JSA to read about.
And c'mon, you can't heap all
the blame on them for poor Johnny Thunder. The guy was always played as
a goofball. He couldn't even remember his own magic word, half the
time. In the JLA/JSA teamup where they rescued the Seven Soldiers of
Victory, he couldn't command his Thunderbolt besause he suddenly got
the hiccups. This was waaaay before the current writers came along.
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8113
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| Posted: 03 July 2007 at 11:38am | IP Logged | 6
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Where was that Superman origin sequence printed? Looks like Terry Austin inks.
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Daniel Kendrick
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3020
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| Posted: 03 July 2007 at 12:16pm | IP Logged | 7
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Karl Kessel inks. not sure what comic, I'm trying to find it now.
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Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2712
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| Posted: 03 July 2007 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 8
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Thunder was a goofball, but he was still a member of the JSA. He was still
long recognized as a member of the JSA and as such as being one of their
friends. However, under Robinson, et al, Johnny is treated as being almost
an embarrassment, the relationship between him and the rest of the team
is more of tolerance. He's even now blamed for the fact that the Vigilante
is rescued after spending decades in the Old West even though in the
original story Johnny and his Thunderbolt had absolutely nothing to do
with the actual sending of the teams to the past (a bad retcon, making
the issue that made the mistake of having the Vigilante show up modern
day as an old man "correct" and the original story "wrong"). It's looking at
his screwball comedic role through harsh, jaded modern eyes and
basically screwing up the spirit of the character. Notice the Parobeck
series didn't focus on the comedy aspects of the character but still had
him at least being a true friend and valued member.
I like a lot of what those writers have done as well. But, I think they
tended to make serious mis-steps as well. While I liked a lot of
Robinson's Starman, almost everything he did with the JSA and actual
golden-age characters was someone trying too hard to bring realism to
the characters and make his mark as being the golden-age guy (thus
undoing or putting his own spin on top of key Roy Thomas retcons and
explanations). I find it funny that there is a segment of fandom that wants
no one else writing Jack Knight, that the character should be kept
immune from being killed off or used by other writers, when it's the exact
opposite of that attitude towards continuity that gave the character
context and allowed him to prosper. I loved Johns on STARS & S.T.R.I.P.E
and on HAWKMAN for the most part. but his JSA has often been mediocre
writing at best.
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Ron Chevrier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1641
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| Posted: 03 July 2007 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | 9
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I don't disagree with you, Ed. There is still a "slash-and-burn"
mentality as regards many of DC's characters, and I find that tragic. I
would much prefer to read about these characters as they were in their
heyday, as heroic, without having to see them wiped out because the old
Quality, or Fawcett, or Charlton versions of themselves are deemed
unprofitable by a company that only trots them out when they need
background filler or victims for the next "Big Event".
I felt that the original JSA members, the original superhero group, who
have fought in a World War, and faced down any number of menaces from
gods to demons and all else in between should not be lamenting the fact
they might be too old for the game, at least not for ten issues. An
offhand, flippant remark perhaps, before rushing into battle, but for
it to be a running theme in the book did not do the characters justice
(pun intended), in my opinion. This was my biggest problem with the
former title.
Again, this is not a knock on Mike Parobeck's art. I like his art, in
general. I just think that I would have enjoyed the overall package
more if the writing was more like the material we are currently getting
(the heroic stuff, not the rapings/killings/maimings of recent
"blockbuster events").
I'm not advocating a blanket approval of some of the recent JSA
material, but for all the negatives, there are several positives for
the longtime characters, as regards Power Girl, Hawkman, Rex
(Hourman)Tyler, Wildcat, Ma Hunkle (a less serious character than even
Johnny Thunder), and the ongoing traetment of Flash and Green Lantern
as foremost amongst an impressive group of heroes.
As to Johnny Thunder: He was ousted by the JSA in favor of Black Canary
with nary a mention in the original series, so the lack of props for
the character goes far back. The Vigilante thing is something I've
never really understood, and it too, bothers me. But on the plus
side, Johhny made out very well in the JSA: Strange Adventures
miniseries a couple of years back, so it's not all bad for him. Since
his soul is now merged with the Thunderbolt, he's pretty powerful, and
immortal, to boot.'Course, he has to live in a pen . . .
Edited by Ron Chevrier on 04 July 2007 at 5:16pm
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Chad Carter
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005
Posts: 9584
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| Posted: 03 July 2007 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | 10
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Oh, that JUSTICE SOCIETY book did the best it could considering what the brains at DC at that time had decided to do, keeping the JSA as a bunch of codgers (Aged Sandman Wesley Dodds has a heart attack on the first page of the new series). I'll say it was downright disgraceful what DC did to the Golden Agers before Robinson, Goyer, Johns. I loved the tone of the Parobeck series, but it was doomed considering the editorial indictment.
Speaking of Johnny Thunder, anyone know what happened to Jonni Thunder and the Thunderbolt?  Though odd, Jonni was a good character, I thought.
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Dale Gonsalves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2004
Location: Jamaica
Posts: 487
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| Posted: 03 July 2007 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | 11
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I really disliked the writing on that JSA series and wanted to drop it, but Mike's art was what kept me coming back.
I'm really happy to see this thread here again. I'm happy that Mike is remembered. He was an exceptional talent and back in the days of him doing Batman I always thought his Batman was THE BATMAN.
You' re missed Mike !!
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Gene Kendall
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 209
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| Posted: 03 July 2007 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 12
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Karl Kessel inks. not sure what comic, I'm trying to find it now.
It might have been from the Batman/Superman Magazine (which was supposedly DC's highest selling title in the 90s, and only lasted a few issues).
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