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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136342
Posted: 13 July 2011 at 12:05pm | IP Logged | 1  

I never thought of Magneto having an accent at all. But then, when I first read a story with him, he didn't have a known real name.

••

Which is how it should have stayed.

One of the things I came to appreciate, as a reader, was how DIFFERENT Magneto was from Doom.

Doom's history we knew in quite intimate detail. We'd "met" his father. We knew about his mother. We'd seen his first love (slipped magically into scenes where she had not been before, rather like the Jack Black character on that episode of COMMUNITY). We understood him to have his own kind of tortured nobility, his own set of rules, which might be messed up, but to which he could be depended upon to adhere. Doom, in a really twisted way, was someone we could trust.

Magneto, on the other hand, was a cipher. We knew nothing of his background, his upbringing, his ethnic heritage. We knew nothing of his family, mother, father, wife, children. And there was no question of him being "noble" in any way. He was the complete opposite of Charles Xavier, even more than Doom was the opposite of Reed Richards. He was, in a nutshell, a complete and unabashed son of a bitch.

And I really liked that! I liked very much that Marvel villains were not the cardboard cutouts I had grown used to at DC. They had depth, they had motives (beyond Kill The Hero. But Magneto -- there was no shading to him. He wanted to enslave humankind -- and there was always that sense that having done so, he would set about enslaving the rest of homo superior, too!

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Greg Kirkman
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Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
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Posted: 13 July 2011 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 2  

Having recently read the entire original X-Men run, I totally agree.

Magneto was truly evil from the start--not a freedom fighter by any stretch. His goal was to RULE. He treated his "allies" as mere tools. He sought to impose his will upon humans and mutants alike.

Magneto was the quintessential X-Men foe because his goals were the polar opposite of theirs. We didn't need to know anything more about him than that. He was the sort of mutant the X-Men were created to stop. That's all that mattered.

While Doom and other Marvel villains were fleshed out in some detail, Magneto represented those villains who come out of nowhere and are just plain evil. The how and why is not important.

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Matt Hawes
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 13 July 2011 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | 3  



This panel always comes to mind when I think about how the character of Magneto has been changed over the years. Mastermind, working for Magneto, creates the above army of neo-Nazi-like troops. An odd choice, considering the history that was later given to Magneto.
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Kip Lewis
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Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2877
Posted: 13 July 2011 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | 4  

I do have to admit, I never saw Doom as noble before JB's run. Of
course, with Doom, my first impressions came from the Hanna Barbara
FF cartoon and Marv Wolfman's FF, where his people feared and hated
him, and few other titles in mid-70s. Then again, at the age of 10,
villains aren't noble, so that wouldn't register even if it was there.
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Michael Todd
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Joined: 07 September 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 4114
Posted: 13 July 2011 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | 5  

Well let's face it, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby didn't intend for Magneto to have been a concentration camp survivor.
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Matt Hawes
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posted: 13 July 2011 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | 6  

Michael, exactly.

A lot of people want to draw a connection between Professor Xavier and Magneto, and Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. That is, fighting for equality, one through peace, the other through more militant means.

But, honestly, I think Stan Lee and Jack Kirby thought of Magneto more like a Hitler, exterminating or enslaving those he perceived as being lessor beings than himself. Magneto was not a character striving for peace at any cost in those original issues, he was a tyrant who wanted to rule or crush the human race. Kirby's use of Nazi imagery in the panel I posted above seems to be in line with that conclusion.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136342
Posted: 13 July 2011 at 6:24pm | IP Logged | 7  

Mastermind, working for Magneto, creates the above army of neo-Nazi-like troops. An odd choice, considering the history that was later given to Magneto.

••

Astonishing the number of people I have seen invoke abused child syndrome to explain this -- the abused child grows up to become himself abusive. Sure, it happens. But move that into the environment of a comic book -- especially as the backstory on a mass-murdering supervillain -- and it becomes the worst kind of insulting psychobabble.

Lee and Kirby -- both Jewish -- knew exactly what they wanted to say with that neo-Nazi imagery. In was instant and unmistakable shorthand for "This guy is the worst kind of bad."

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Paulo Pereira
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Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
Posted: 13 July 2011 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | 8  

The Magneto backstory feels tacked on to me. The guy was a right bastard for 20 years worth of comics. One day some dubious origin is inserted and he suddenly becomes sympathetic? Blah.
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Michael Todd
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Joined: 07 September 2009
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Posted: 13 July 2011 at 7:37pm | IP Logged | 9  

It's this crazy age that we live in, ever since the late 70's it's been frowned on to say that anyone is just a bad guy, no now you're supposed to try to look deeper to find what motivates "this poor soul' to do such terrible things and then help them to overcome it through sympathy and understanding. Thanks but no thanks. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and a Super-Villain should just be a Super-Villain. I want my comic books to be clear cut simple fun sometimes, so that I can escape into a world where heroes fight villains and not a complex reflection of the nutty world in which we actually live.
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Paul Kimball
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Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2253
Posted: 13 July 2011 at 9:58pm | IP Logged | 10  

I do have to admit, I never saw Doom as noble before JB's run.
++++++++
I never have, just can't see a murdering despot as noble. Maybe noble
intentions somewhere deep down.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136342
Posted: 14 July 2011 at 3:48am | IP Logged | 11  

The key phrase is "…his own kind of tortured nobility…".
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Michael Todd
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Joined: 07 September 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 4114
Posted: 14 July 2011 at 5:08am | IP Logged | 12  

Count Dracula was always portrayed as being noble in his own way as well, and he's murdered a lot more folks than Doctor Doom ever did.

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