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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 14 July 2011 at 6:15am | IP Logged | 1
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Not always. The original book didn't portray him as such.
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2877
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| Posted: 14 July 2011 at 6:48am | IP Logged | 2
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"His own kind of tortured nobility"; I guess I didn't see that originally.
I saw him as someone who was completely Macchavellian, which to
me, excludes nobility, except when it helps. Before it seemed like he
just wanted to rule the world for pride, nowadays, he wants to rule for
pride and because he believes he can make the world better..Plus, it isn't just himself, it's his people. Wolfman wrote his people as
hating him and he looked at them as mere pawns of his will, but over
last 20 years, we see he cares about his people, provides for them and
they love/respect him. I don't know if Wolfman's views matched what
Stan Lee wrote, but that's why I said, I never considered Doom noble
(by any view) before JB. (But I like this view better.)
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Aaron Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 10461
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| Posted: 14 July 2011 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 3
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Count Dracula was always portrayed as being noble in his own way as well, *** Stoker's Dracula was an absolute villain, a monster. The romantic, noble, almost sympathetic version of Dracula was an invention of later adapters. It actually parellels what's happened with Magneto, although I hadn't thought of the similarity before.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136343
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| Posted: 14 July 2011 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 4
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The notion a vampires as "romantic" is very much a modern invention. It mostly has its beginnings with the Lugosi Dracula, on Broadway, which gave us the suave, evening dress wearing Count -- and which mostly ignored Stoker's novel!Before this, vampires were vermin -- which it how, for the most part, I still prefer to play them.
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2877
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| Posted: 14 July 2011 at 9:01am | IP Logged | 5
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Modern day tales use vampire bites as metaphors for sex or rape;
was there any such metaphor in old tales?
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16658
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| Posted: 14 July 2011 at 9:14am | IP Logged | 6
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As JB wrote, in folklore, vampires are vile, disgusting creatures. They were believed to be the cause of death and disease in villages. These creatures were often described as being bloated and ruddy-looking. Hardly the pretty-boys from "Twilight."
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16658
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| Posted: 14 July 2011 at 9:19am | IP Logged | 7
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Hmmm... I just thought about it... Magneto's progression does seem to follow, somewhat, that of the vampire in popular culture: Once a vile, evil being set upon destroying (or killing) its victims, but later written as misunderstood and even regal, doing what he/it must to survive.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 14 July 2011 at 9:19am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136343
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| Posted: 14 July 2011 at 9:56am | IP Logged | 8
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Invoke the internet's favorite bogey man, and the portrayal of Magneto becomes instantly absurd -- Adolf Hitler was, after all, "only" fighting to "protect" his people.(Sad thing is, I know there are otherwise rational human beings who would actually make that argument! One of my former neighbors is one. Discovering that was one of the most surreal moments of my life!)
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Scott Silverstein
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 October 2007
Posts: 198
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| Posted: 14 July 2011 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 9
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I never understood why the writers took this basic evil character and then re-worked him into a Simon Wiesenthal type...
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2877
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| Posted: 14 July 2011 at 11:08am | IP Logged | 10
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Because, (many) people today don't believe in true evil or good. It's
the same reason heroes get written with feet of clay. It's GenX
cynicism.Ronin and the Super-skrull are the same; from their nation's POV,
they're the super-heroes, so somehow that's morphed into them
being quasi-heroes to us.
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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 4241
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| Posted: 14 July 2011 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 11
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And now, apparantly, Sinestro (!) is becoming Green Lantern of OUR space sector.
What happened to just let villains be villains? Returning to Magneto, he is a great character AS a villain. The kind of villain you loved to hate, which is why he made an impact in the first place. Why change that? It doesn't improve the character.
In Magneto's case it happened years ago, but now Sinestro. And next?
Is it the Darth Vader syndrom? Or is it the other side of the coin for those that won't buy that characters like Superman do good deeds for no other reason than it's right. So following that, the villains can't be all bad either?
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Thanos Kollias
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004
Location: Greece
Posts: 5009
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| Posted: 14 July 2011 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | 12
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Well, in the story Bram Stoker wrote there is a parallel between being seduced and bitten by a vampire and being bitten by one, in both Lucy's and Harker's cases.
And why blame Twilight when Buffy on TV and Vampire Diaries and True Blood in the books have shown pretty boys, romantic vampires a good decade before Twilight?
Edited by Thanos Kollias on 14 July 2011 at 1:12pm
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