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Fred J Chamberlain
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Joined: 30 August 2006
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Posted: 12 December 2012 at 9:11pm | IP Logged | 1  

As to being overwritten, I'd disagree strongly and point out the
importance of keeping historical perspective here. Most comics were
significantly more meaty during that time as far as both narrative and
dialogue.
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Chad Carter
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Joined: 16 June 2005
Posts: 9584
Posted: 12 December 2012 at 9:50pm | IP Logged | 2  


As to being overwritten, I'd disagree strongly and point out the 
importance of keeping historical perspective here. Most comics were 
significantly more meaty during that time as far as both narrative and 
dialogue.

I have historical perspective, as I prefer the "meaty" comics of the Bronze Age over any other era. 

But the soap opera aspect of Titans--and X-Men--played well when I was a teenager, for the most part. However, reading Claremont and Wolfman's team stories now, they're overwritten like soap operas, layering meaning and relevance through a narrowing scope; what began for the X-Men and Titans as stories about characters swiftly became stories about the built-in mythology of their worlds. 

All well and good, and we all bought in, but historical perspective now that the insular mode of those comics and their soap opera continuity actually damaged superhero story-telling. 

Spider-Man, to me, was always melodramatic and overwrought, but in general (at least pre-Peter marriage) pretty honest in the storytelling. Over time, as we've seen, the soap opera aspects gradually engulfed the title. Daredevil suffered the same fate after Frank Miller--storytelling struggling to reach the emotional peaks of Miller, of Claremont, of Wolfman's best stories. 

Comics became insular even more, with more convoluted reflection on past stories and continuity, while readership grew older and tastes more provocative. Today, the soap opera is pure titillation and overt expectancy of nothing but emotional peaks. 

And I'm fairly certain this stems from a couple of primary sources of superhero entertainment, the two biggest-selling books of their era, in the Titans and X-Men. 

And I'll clarify: there's nothing inherently wrong with either book, but they were fertile with a kind of grotesque cyclical expectation that many comics had never had before them--they engaged a post-teen audience hungry for their own experience, removed from their father's Fantastic Four and Justice League of America. A ripe environment for steadily-declining emotional returns from the story-telling. And a couple of corporations ready to feed a nostalgic horde the same knock-off X-titles and Titan-titles while crowding out new titles, new genres, new anything except more knock-off hubris-filled team books. A quicksand of dreary hackwork in the fading light of "Death of Phoenix" and "Judas Contract."






Edited by Chad Carter on 12 December 2012 at 10:18pm
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Chad Carter
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Posted: 12 December 2012 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | 3  


Maybe their JLA would have been great, but there is no guarantee.

Well, the track record seems pretty clear, in retrospect. But even then, did anyone doubt Perez was, within a couple months of taking over JLA, one of the best artists in superhero comics? Wasn't it specifically his JLA work which had swiftly launched a new star? There was no chance anyone, anywhere, was not going to buy JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA with Perez on art. And I was a 10-year old kid who'd never even accidentally rubbed up against a DC comic in a spinner rack, who was ready to read anything Perez laid down.

And Wolfman, whose superhero stuff had always been hit or miss before NEW TEEN TITANS, maybe would not have prospered on JLA. I'll give everyone that. But I think, or at least I'd hope, Wolfman and Perez would have been inspired to create at least one or two new characters for JLA, characters who might have become Cyborg, Raven and Starfire. 

I don't know how tight the editorial reins were, but I wonder how this team 

say, would have worked. I mean, wasn't a vast amount of Wolfman's writing (early) on NTT inspired in bulk by Raven and Starfire, characters created for the series?

Add in the fact that Robin never would have been forced to "grow up" and become, ugh, Nightwing, and a world without NEW TEEN TITANS might have been worth it right there.


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Jason Czeskleba
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Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4639
Posted: 13 December 2012 at 1:40am | IP Logged | 4  

 Robert White wrote:
There was certainly some charming Silver Age DC issues, and it's true that beyond a few "best of" trades my knowledge is limited, but DC was obviously stuck in a rut of creating comics that only appealed to kids with often "mindlessly" simplistic morality and plots.

I don't deny that there were a great deal of silly plots in 50s and 60s Superman comics, but that's not all there was.  The three stories I listed in my previous post all had darker themes and levels of maturity comparable to stuff Marvel was putting out around the same time.  At minimum, they were not mindlessly simplistic.  There was more than one type of story in 60s DC books.

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Eric Kleefeld
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Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4419
Posted: 13 December 2012 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 5  

William Costello:


 QUOTE:
I'm not sure you'll like the upcoming Man of Steel movie, then. The second preview was released yesterday. Based on the two-minute preview, "happy and well-adjusted" doesn't look like it's going to be in the movie.

••

John Byrne:


 QUOTE:
Hey, who can't LOVE that CLASSIC moment when Pa Kent suggests that maybe it would be appropriate for Clark to let people DIE to protect his secret identity!

*****

I watched the trailer, and that really is shocking.  The writers seemed to lack the morality and nobility in themselves to know what Pa Kent would have told Clark in response to that question:  With all the amazing things you can do, you can think of a way to save people without giving away your identity.

The Kents did not hold Clark back — they guided him to the right path.

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Stephen Robinson
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posts: 5833
Posted: 13 December 2012 at 7:48pm | IP Logged | 6  

The Kents did not hold Clark back � they guided him to the right path.

*********

SER: Yep. And any excuse to post this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihVPxjno3Yw
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