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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 28 March 2013 at 5:50am | IP Logged | 1
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On the subject of the temporary mandate of not featuring classic Batman villians in the late 60's, I never got that.•• After a brief period of falling completely under its spell while it was being broadcast, DC tried very hard to escape the long shadow cast by the Adam West "Batman" TV series. One of the ways of doing that was to drop the villains who had appeared so prominently on the show.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 28 March 2013 at 11:36am | IP Logged | 2
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After a brief period of falling completely under its spell while it was being broadcast, DC tried very hard to escape the long shadow cast by the Adam West "Batman" TV series. One of the ways of doing that was to drop the villains who had appeared so prominently on the show.~~~~~~~~~~~ WTF!!! Why did we need to be deprived of Egg-Head and King Tut ?
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4620
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| Posted: 28 March 2013 at 11:49am | IP Logged | 3
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Robert White wrote:
| Batman's rogue's gallery, certainly at the time, were as down to earth as "superhero's" got. |
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But they all wore brightly colored costumes and their campy, flamboyant portrayals on the TV show were firmly in the public's mind. Schwartz was focused on changing Batman's image, and having to simultaneously change the image of all the villains probably seemed an unnecessary distraction.
It wasn't just the classic rogues gallery that was benched. During that two-year period Batman pretty much didn't face any costumed villains. A few new characters like the Spook, The Man with Ten Eyes, and (towards the end) Ras al Ghul were introduced, but none of them wore flashy costumes. And they were the exceptions, as most of the stories featured ordinary criminals or weird gothic mysteries. And it's notable that the first classic villain to be re-introduced was one that didn't wear a costume and also had never been featured on the TV series: Two Face.
This is my favorite period in Batman's history. I'm sure part of that is sentiment (since it was the period when I discovered the character). But it is filled with clever, well-done stories in which Batman is about as down-to-earth and human as he ever was... the antithesis of the high-tech, infallible jerk he has become.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 28 March 2013 at 11:52am
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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 28 March 2013 at 12:03pm | IP Logged | 4
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I love that period also, but it was the right move to bring back the classic villains. To be honest, I think they could have achieved the same ends, told the same stories, while still telling stories with the classic villains with minimal effort and planning. The animated series proved this perfectly. And to think of it, didn't Brave and the Bold use the then "updated" Batman with a bunch of colorful guest-stars and villains to great success?
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
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| Posted: 28 March 2013 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | 5
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Robert White wrote:
| I think they could have achieved the same ends, told the same stories, while still telling stories with the classic villains with minimal effort and planning. |
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You're probably right, but I really like the boldness of removing all super villains from the titles for two whole years. It forced Robbins and O'Neil to find other types of stories to tell, and they really rose to the occasion. I really enjoy stories in which Batman faces ordinary criminals, something he never does today. I love the street-level Batman of those days, a guy who could be overpowered by three ordinary thugs rather than today's ninja master who can outfight 30 guys with one arm tied behind his back. I also like how benching the villains for two years made it more dramatic when they did gradually return. Part of what made "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge" so compelling was the fact that he hadn't been seen for four years.
Brave and Bold did feature colorful superhero guest stars, but they also eschewed super villains for the most part during that period. Most (possibly all, though I haven't double checked) of the stories during that time featured ordinary criminals.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 28 March 2013 at 1:09pm
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Eric Smearman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5823
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| Posted: 28 March 2013 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 6
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I read the Joker's first appearance reprinted in Jules Feiffer's THE
GREAT COMIC BOOK HEROES. It it, to this day, still the scariest
version of the character I've ever seen. Marshall Rogers' version is
second.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 28 March 2013 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 7
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It should be noted that Denny and Neal had to fight a hard and mighty battle to bring the Joker back. That culminated with "The Joker's Five Way Revenge", which turned out to be a little TOO successful! The fans loved the "new" Joker, and DC went crazy with the character, eventually even giving him his own book!! Net result: overload and fan apathy.At DC, it seems, the motto is ALWAYS give the fans what they think they want!
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Erin Anna Leach
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 February 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 746
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| Posted: 28 March 2013 at 3:38pm | IP Logged | 8
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I am pretty sure my first Joker was drawn by Aparo. My favorite is a hard call between Aparo, Adams and Lopez. Each of them had aspects to the way they rendered certain elements of the character that I like. I am an illustrator, so we tend to glean from multiple sources.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 28 March 2013 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | 9
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The Joker series had an interesting restriction on it, due to the Comics Code Authority, which required him to end up back in jail at the end of each issue, according to one of the historical essays in The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told. Not an impossible restriction on the creative team, but I'm sure it made it difficult to sketch out any sort of long-term plan for the book.
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 28 March 2013 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | 10
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Adams, Timm, JB, and Rogers' Jokers are versions I love but I have to go with Aparo.
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
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| Posted: 28 March 2013 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | 11
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It wasn't jail where the Joker ended up in every issue of his own title, but Arkham Asylum, a ludicrous concept if there ever was one. Even the post-Englehart "literally insane" Joker would probably not meet the standard for "not guilty by reason of insanity." It was ridiculous to suggest the mid-70's version of the character should be institutionalized rather than jailed.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 29 March 2013 at 6:04am | IP Logged | 12
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Like I've said, I prefer the version of the Joker who is only playing at being "crazy".This picture is informed, I suppose, by one of those "future" tales that A;fred "wrote" when I was a kid. There we saw Batman II and Robin II looking for information on a case, an visiting the Joker, who was living in "peaceful retirement" on the outskirts of Gotham. You can't really "retire" from being insane!
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