Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum MOBILE
Byrne Robotics | The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 5 Next >>
Topic: The Inconsisties Inevitable In A Comic Book Universe Locked Post Reply | Post New Topic
Author
Message
Marc M. Woolman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 April 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 2096
Posted: 16 December 2013 at 5:22am | IP Logged | 1  

There have been more stories showing Thor can not prevail against the Hulk, some of 'em by Stan Lee no less, than the other way around. 

The Submariner is not in the upper-most class of strength, he's in the notch below that guys like Ben Grim belong too. 
There's a classic Roger Stern/John Buscema/Tom Palmer Avengers issue where both Namor and Hercules are being held in place while at the bottom of the ocean, and Hercules' strength eventually allows him to move, whereas the Submariner, in his ocean element, can't. He's simply not as strong as Thor, Hercules, or The strongest one there is, aka The Hulk.
As I understand it, The Silver Surfer if he channels his cosmic energy into strength , should be way beyond the Hulk or Thor, except that never happens. The Surfer has lost to both of them.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
Posted: 16 December 2013 at 6:14am | IP Logged | 2  

Technically, the Surfer could just turn the Hulk or Thor into a tree. Then again, Galactus could do that to ever superhero on the planet if he wanted to, but that never happens either. I wonder why?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Rob Van Gessel
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 335
Posted: 16 December 2013 at 2:48pm | IP Logged | 3  

" I wonder why? "

I'd say for the same reason baddies never polish off James Bond when they have him. If that happens we'll never have a continuing series!

The Surfer - especially in Kirby hands - could manipulate all matter any way he chose, himself included. With this power, He often amplifies his own physical strength to any level he wants to deal with his adversaries on their own level - whether it's the Hulk, the Thing, or the Abomination.

Galactus' power, I think, is rarely represented properly by the motley crew of writers and artists. I havent't kept up with the books in years, though, so who knows?
Back to Top profile | search
 
Rob Van Gessel
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 335
Posted: 16 December 2013 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 4  

I consider the Thing's power more variable than ever explicitly stated in any printed passages. 85 to nearly 100 tons.

That's how I account for the inconsistencies. Take a look at Kirby's classic FF#60, the one Ben battles Doom as he wields the power of the silver surfer.

When I was a kid I hated it when some books played down the Thing's strength too much. In one issue he'd take impossible punishment in another he'd get taken out by a pea-shooter!
----------------------------------------

BTW, what did you all think of the period when Ben was further mutated, tail and all? Did you miss it when it was gone or were you glad to see the old design back?

Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian Rhodes
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3334
Posted: 16 December 2013 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 5  

I wouldn't put too much stock in stories from the 70's, that was Marvel's shittiest era in my opinion.

I don't think I'd agree with that even if I'd stopped reading comics entirely by 1989.


 



Edited by Brian Rhodes on 16 December 2013 at 6:04pm
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2364
Posted: 16 December 2013 at 4:07pm | IP Logged | 6  

I loved the 70's!  Steve Gerber on HOWARD THE DUCK and DEFENDERS and MAN-THING, Don McGregor on KILLRAVEN, the new X-MEN were getting started, Englehart and Buscema on CAPTAIN AMERICA, Englehart and Perez made AVENGERS amazing, etc. etc.  The 70's were great!  And Moench and Gulacy on MASTER OF KUNG FU!  And Starlin!  And then we had the birth of great concepts/characters like GHOST RIDER, IRON FIST, LUKE CAGE, WHAT IF?, THE INVADERS, and more!  The 70's were a very creative, fun, and smart follow-up to the 70's!  The early 80's gave us some very nice revitalizations of older characters, but then it started to go downhill.  The 90's were full of bubble bodies and throwaway stories, and the 00's were sort of depressing. 

Edited by Eric Jansen on 16 December 2013 at 5:01pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Rob Van Gessel
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 335
Posted: 16 December 2013 at 4:35pm | IP Logged | 7  

I regard Buscema's 1970's run on Thor to be nearly the best in the series - Hela! Durok! Ragnarok! The Odin Ring!

The Hulk's run is my favorite too, through the early 80's.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian O'Neill
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 13 November 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 1964
Posted: 16 December 2013 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | 8  

As a kid(70s-80s), I didn't follow every Marvel title that closely, but my 'take' on the Thing, based on MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE was that (A) He was never supposed to be as strong as the Hulk, unless (B) The writers forgot about (A), even though (C) they always remembered rule (A) when it was time for Ben and the Hulk to meet again.
Sometimes, I got the impression that Ben, especially when the Hulk was around, was only about as strong as Spider-Man, on the same sort of 'proportional' level('The proportionate strength of  several other scrappy street-fighters from Brooklyn who were hit with cosmic rays.')
As a result, just about every Hulk v. Thing bttle I ever read was a disappointment. Ben was a guy who could trash pretty much all of the 'street-level' heroes, and quite a few of the Avengers,as well as some other teams if he was in a bad mood/under someone's influence( I used to wish DC and Marvel had done a crossover where he found himself in the JLA satellite, facing the whole 'Bronze Age' roster of the team).
But, he was always treated as if the Hulk were his 'big brother' beating the crap out of him so quickly, Hulk would lose interest!

And I agree, Namor should be a lot more powerful than he's been depicted, if only he'd been written properly. But then, writers had the same problem with Aquamn, and it is very similar to 'Popeye syndrome'..without the necessary 'ingredient'/plot device, the characters are pushovers.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Joe S. Walker
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 606
Posted: 16 December 2013 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | 9  

"I got the feeling that Kirby's original intent for the Silver Surfer was that he was to be the most powerful "hero." It was retconned later that the Surfer was weakened by Galactus when he was trapped on Earth, I believe."

The Surfer lost most of his original power in FF #72, a few months before his own series started - but if you read the words and the pictures of that story separately, the loss of power is all in the dialogue, i.e. much more likely to have been Stan's idea.
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Armindo Macieira
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 15 October 2006
Location: Portugal
Posts: 955
Posted: 16 December 2013 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | 10  

Just because character A defeats character B and character B defeats character C, it doesn't mean character A must easily defeat character C.

Namor seems to have lost some of his power lately. I remember a story back in the 70's, I believe, where he fought the Thing and defeated him outside water (the Thing was guarding an helmet?), yet in AvX, the Thing trashed Namor underwater, where he should be nearly unbeatable. Didn't understand that...
I think Namor should hold his own, outside water, against the likes of the Hulk or the Thing (eventually even losing, but not without a big fight) and beat them underwater.

Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Rob Van Gessel
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 335
Posted: 16 December 2013 at 8:38pm | IP Logged | 11  

My main creature-man to whup ass has always been the Thing!

My devotion to Namor's character is mostly psychological, as he is the only hero-villain who earns his grades by being an asshole!

As for Thing-Hulk tradeoffs, in terms of how the rivalry was depicted, and keeping in mind where strength levels were in specific time periods, I favor their first meeting in FF#12, then FF#112, Two-In-One premier issue, and FF/Hulk the "spiked" Thing versus the gray Hulk.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Rob Van Gessel
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 335
Posted: 16 December 2013 at 8:44pm | IP Logged | 12  

A Thing-Abomination trade-off:

The difference, it's always appeared, between the Hulk and the Abomination is that the latter's strength level never changed during a fight.

The Abomination gets tired in a fight like the Thing does. Thus, whether it's a good day or an off day for the Thing he could still conceivably have the advantage in a close battle by making up the difference in speed and a massive blow to the right nerve points.
Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 5 Next >>
  Post Reply | Post New Topic |

Forum Jump

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login

You are currently viewing the MOBILE version of the site.
CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE FULL SITE