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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31287
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| Posted: 10 January 2015 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 1
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Was DOFP plotted before Shooter's demand that Phoenix die?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133556
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| Posted: 10 January 2015 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 2
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Was DOFP plotted before Shooter's demand that Phoenix die?•• Shooter did not demand that Phoenix die. He wanted to have her "sent to a prison asteroid, to be horribly tortured for all eternity." When Chris told me this, I said "F**k that, I'd rather kill her!" And, yes, DoFP was plotted months before.
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 10 January 2015 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 3
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Rachel's continued inclusion did seem to become the first domino to
fall in what I saw as a cascade of problems that developed within the
X-Men titles. Adding Bishop and Cable seemed to make it worse.
As a on again, off again reader of those titles, I felt like the DoFP was
no longer a potential alternate timeline that had been averted, but a
predestined future that the X-Men couldn't escape, but were
constantly trying to. At that point, I felt I was trying to read stories
about a group that was fighting a hopeless battle. Well, if the good
guys CAN'T win, why bother reading.
Chris's style of writing didn't help. It seemed to me that the stories
became self-serving and ego driven, instead of servicing the
characters. At least that's how they read in my mind. Where I could've
probably read X-Men stories written by Claremont, I had no desire to
read Claremont stories that just happen to feature the X-Men.
Edited by Stephen Churay on 10 January 2015 at 2:01pm
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31287
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| Posted: 10 January 2015 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 4
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That's right. Sorry for the misremembering about that.
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 5
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By the time that Jean Grey had returned to life and was appearing in X-FACTOR while Rachel Summers was still a character in X-MEN, rendering Rachel not actually "Jean Grey's daughter from another timeline" but "the daughter of Jean Grey's doppelganger from another timeline," I was thinking "this is just too much." Before Cable and Bishop were introduced I was already living an X-title-free life.
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 4:13pm | IP Logged | 6
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I always felt that Rachel's inclusion messed up the balance of the X-Men. We had the popular members of the X-Men + Rogue and it was interesting to see Rogue prove herself while trying to learn to control her powers but adding Rachel moved Rogue's story to the back burner.
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 5:19pm | IP Logged | 7
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Rogue herself was complicated enough, what with Carol Danvers buzzing around in the back of her head.
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 6:22pm | IP Logged | 8
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When I was a teenager, Hulk was my favorite character, and John Byrne was (still is) my favorite comic book artist. When I found that he was working with Hulk, man... it was the best news ever.I cannot tell my disappointment when he left the book after such a short run. These books were almost impossible to find here in Brazil and I still have all of them. I even have a picture of me, teenager, holding the number 316.
I am the boy holding the Hulk 316 in October 1986. The boy beside me is my brother. He was eight years old and I was 13.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 6:55pm | IP Logged | 9
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I cannot tell my disappointment when he left the book after such a short run. ••• Me, too, Marcio! Me, too!
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 8:34pm | IP Logged | 10
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When did it become part of the story that Bruce Banner was a victim of child abuse? My first exposure to it was during the David/Keown run on the series. I really hated that inclusion into the mythos.
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Steven Legge
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Joined: 28 July 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 866
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 9:01pm | IP Logged | 11
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I remembered that Barry Windsor Smith had done a similar Hulk story that was never used, so I looked that up and found this.
Edited by request of the redundancy department of redundancy.
Edited by Steven Legge on 12 January 2015 at 10:44am
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Stephen Robinson
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 11 January 2015 at 9:18pm | IP Logged | 12
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JB: Shooter did not demand that Phoenix die. He wanted to have her
"sent to a prison asteroid, to be horribly tortured for all eternity."
****
SER: Wouldn't the X-Men devote the rest of their lives to rescuing her?
How could Shooter think that was a realistic option? Either she died --
in the tragic, noble sacrifice way she did -- or she was somehow
rendered no longer a threat. IIRC, she would have the mind of a child
and thus unable to access her powers. This removes her from the book
in a humane way but also allows for her or Phoenix to return,
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