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Topic: JB - Jim Shooter - Denny O’Neil and the HULK! Locked Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Brian Miller
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Joined: 28 July 2004
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Posted: 11 January 2015 at 9:52pm | IP Logged | 1  

Anthony, it was towards the end of Mantlo's run with Mignola on pencils. Just a couple of issues before JB's debut, IIRC. 
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Brian Hague
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Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
Posted: 12 January 2015 at 7:41am | IP Logged | 2  

Issue #312 was the one that gave us the abusive Brian Banner as Bruce's father. It's disappointing to read the account given in the above linked article and find that the idea may have been taken from Barry Windsor-Smith's proposal without any acknowledgement or payment. 

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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 12 January 2015 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 3  

JB: Shooter did not demand that Phoenix die. He wanted to have her "sent to a prison asteroid, to be horribly tortured for all eternity."

****

SER: Wouldn't the X-Men devote the rest of their lives to rescuing her? How could Shooter think that was a realistic option? Either she died -- in the tragic, noble sacrifice way she did -- or she was somehow rendered no longer a threat. IIRC, she would have the mind of a child and thus unable to access her powers. This removes her from the book in a humane way but also allows for her or Phoenix to return…

••

My rejection of the "prison asteroid" notion was that it would completely changed the trajectory of the book. By then, we were no longer in the same kind of Marvel Stan, Jack and Steve had worked in, where cataclysmic events could occur and be essentially forgotten by the next issue or storyline. Fans were now demanding CONSEQUENCES -- which, somewhat ironically, was what Shooter was after, too. He did not think having Jean psychically lobotomized was sufficient punishment for the actions of Dark Phoenix -- even tho that was exactly what he had approved a few months earlier.

But I knew that Jean -- and at that point it was still Jean we were talking about -- being shipped off to be "horribly tortured for all eternity" would turn UNCANNY X-MEN into a space adventure book, something far from its stated mandate. Again somewhat ironically, the book did, indeed, become just that not long after I left.

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Marc Cheek
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Joined: 18 June 2014
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Posted: 12 January 2015 at 8:01am | IP Logged | 4  

JB - whose idea was it that Jean be brought back a few years later?
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 12 January 2015 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 5  

JB - whose idea was it that Jean be brought back a few years later?

••

The idea began with Kurt Busiek, still a fan in those days. He suggested that it was not Jean who rose from Jamaica Bay as Phoenix, but the Phoenix Entity as a separate being. The real Jean was in a "coccoon" of some kind at the bottom of the Bay.

When X-FACTOR was in development stages, I suggested this was a way to have the entire original X-Men team reunited.

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Marc Cheek
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Posted: 12 January 2015 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 6  

Thanks JB! As I was reading it just now, it started to sound familiar.
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
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Posted: 12 January 2015 at 8:25am | IP Logged | 7  

I'll add, too, that making that suggestion is another one of the places in my life I'd life to visit via time machine, to whisper in my own ear "Leave it alone."
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J W Campbell
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Joined: 28 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 353
Posted: 12 January 2015 at 8:35am | IP Logged | 8  

 John Byrne wrote:
one of the places in my life I'd life to visit via time machine, to whisper in my own ear

If you should happen across such a machine, could I impose on you to make a small detour and drop off a couple of notes to my younger self?
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Brian Miller
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Joined: 28 July 2004
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Posted: 12 January 2015 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 9  

JB, were you offered the book that became X-FACTOR?

I find it a little odd that neith you, nor Claremont had a hand in that book.
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Vinny Valenti
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Joined: 17 April 2004
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Posted: 12 January 2015 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 10  

Claremont was dead-set against X_FACTOR for numerous
reasons. One was the return of Jean of course, but the
other was that he had just gotten done "retiring" Cyclops.
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Jason Schulman
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Joined: 08 July 2004
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Posted: 12 January 2015 at 1:34pm | IP Logged | 11  

I suppose I would've had no problem with X-Factor (minus the "mutant hunter" idea which was eventually dropped anyway) had Rachel Summers not already been an X-Man.

Then again, X-Factor had one other glaring problem -- Scott Summers suddenly abandoning his wife and son. Very heroic, that.

But hey, Madelyne Pryor turned out to be a Jean clone and a Goblin Queen and whatever else she was, so who cares, right? And Nathaniel Summers...well, let's not talk about what happened to him...
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133278
Posted: 12 January 2015 at 1:39pm | IP Logged | 12  

I wasn't offered X-FACTOR, and would most likely have declined if I had been. Even then, my sights were already set on what became HIDDEN YEARS.
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