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Geoffrey Langford
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 December 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 235
Posted: 07 January 2021 at 4:02am | IP Logged | 1 post reply
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Edited by Geoffrey Langford on 07 January 2021 at 4:21am
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4652
Posted: 07 January 2021 at 4:04am | IP Logged | 2 post reply
Geoffrey, Ashli Babbitt died because she chose to participate in the violent occupation of a government building, implicitly threatening lawmakers with the actions she was part of.  She was a misguided individual killed in the act of committing a crime.  She did not deserve to die, but she also does not deserve any special brand of sympathy.  She made the choice to do this, and she shares responsibility for what happened with the others who chose to occupy the Capitol, and with the president who incited them.  She helped create a dangerous, volatile situation, and her death was an unfortunate consequence of her own actions in tandem with the mob.

Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 07 January 2021 at 4:10am
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Geoffrey Langford
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Joined: 20 December 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 235
Posted: 07 January 2021 at 4:20am | IP Logged | 3 post reply
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Edited by Geoffrey Langford on 07 January 2021 at 4:20am
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Marc Baptiste
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Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3655
Posted: 07 January 2021 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 4 post reply
Trump has apparently indicated that he NOW acknowledges his defeat and is committed to an "orderly" transition of power.

The kindest words I can muster is... All is not forgiven!!!

Marc
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Kevin Brown
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Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9057
Posted: 07 January 2021 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 5 post reply
Erasing your comments, Geoffrey?  Chickenshit move.
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Mike Benson
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Joined: 04 January 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 835
Posted: 07 January 2021 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 6 post reply
It's a testament to law enforcement's training and their efforts to maintain peace that MORE people were not shot.   They invaded the Capitol Building with the entire Congress in session. 
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Marc Baptiste
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Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3655
Posted: 07 January 2021 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 7 post reply
I was too white hot with disbelief and disgust after reading Geoffrey's (not yet erased) posts to reply.  The part that particularly enraged me was his comment about the how the "protesters" were only intending to stage a "sit-in" in the capital building!  Unfortunately, there was plenty more.

Marc


Edited by Marc Baptiste on 07 January 2021 at 9:40am
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Philippe Negrin
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Joined: 01 August 2007
Location: France
Posts: 2643
Posted: 07 January 2021 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 8 post reply
To think that this used to be the greatest democracy in the world !!!! Look what Trump has done of it. And even guiltier are Republicans / the GOP who let it happen and thought they would benefit from a guy like Trump.
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Marc Baptiste
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Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3655
Posted: 07 January 2021 at 9:55am | IP Logged | 9 post reply
Philippe, 

We were and are a wonderful, great and VERY POWERFUL democratic republic, but the "greatest democracy in the world' - I am not sure we were EVER that.

I mean to be honest, we aren't even a democracy in the truest sense of the word.  In the beginning days of the republic, only 1/2 on 1 branch of our government was democratically elected: the House of Representatives.  

The President was chosen by the Electoral College who were selected by methods dictated by the State Legislatures - the Senate was chosen directly the State Legislatures, and the Federal Judiciary, up to and including the Supreme Court were appointed the the non-democratically elected President and confirmed by the non-democratically appointed Senate.

Marc


Edited by Marc Baptiste on 07 January 2021 at 10:00am
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Eric Sofer
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Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
Posted: 07 January 2021 at 10:55am | IP Logged | 10 post reply
I couldn't post yesterday because my rage was making me watch all this hassle.

I KNOW what happened. I saw it, I easily interpreted it, and I just wondered one thing...

Why wasn't Trump overthrown in a military coup and why didn't we sic the MARINES on this situation?

I know, I know, I hear you. But consider... this was an act of sedition by Trump. He fomented government overthrow. He's disqualified himself as president, trying to stage a fascist coup (Hi D.A.P. - sorry, you were right.) He even told his worshippers that he'd be at the Capitol with them (he wasn't.)

The presidential succession was in turmoil. The VP was TRAPPED IN THE CAPITOL. Pelosi and Grassley were TRAPPED IN THE CAPITOL. God alone knows where Mike Pompeo was - but I head nothing from him and I suspect he was locked down too.

This was unprecedented - so who was there to take control? And I don't mean a coup. Who could command forces to save the Capitol from assault and battery? Who could get the traitors and seditionists out of the Capitol? The Mayor of D.C. tried, but she didn't seem to have forces to implement quickly enough. The D.C. National Guard was pretty slow in getting involved, and the Virginia and Maryland National Guards were sent - but couldn't get there in time.

Again, we couldn't do anything, and there was no precedent! I'm a mostly leftward leading political fellow... but right then yesterday, I was full hard core right wing "Send the marines!" mind set.

The Army would have sufficed, surely, but damn - I think the Marines would have had it in order by the numbers and in proper order.

Let us not mention Posse Comitatus. You cannot convince me that any of those Trump-based attackers maintained any right to citizenship. They were attacking the Capitol with intent to kill, and in one case, they succeeded.

Very extreme? Sure, it could be. I admit I was plenty enraged. But again... we were literally writing history yesterday. No one knew what to do.

I was ready to see President Murder impeached and ejected by today too... but it may take a while. It might not occur... but which traitors and insurrectionists will we have to blame for THAT?

Right now, I want Trump out; I want those invaders ID'ed and jailed; I want the supporting Senators and Congress-critters arrested; and I pray for some order restored to our government.

Thanks for tolerating my rant.
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3527
Posted: 07 January 2021 at 12:27pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply
The military shouldn't get involved, no matter what, for pretty much any reason.  In addition to the depressing precedent it would set and the danger of further politicizing the DoD, given the 38% of enlisted (and 52% of veterans) who support Trump and the presence of White Supremacists in the military, there's a good chance that some of the troops would side with the insurrectionists.

You don't send in the military for the same reason you don't throw gasoline onto a fire.


Edited by Dave Kopperman on 07 January 2021 at 12:29pm
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
Posted: 07 January 2021 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply
"Trump has apparently indicated that he NOW acknowledges his defeat and is committed to an "orderly" transition of power."

Weasel wants to keep his pardoning powers.

People subjecting themselves to, and choosing, known sources of slanted half-truth and outrage grievance peddling media is a big problem, especially in the U.S. At some point people are making a decision to go to a website that didn't exist a dozen or so years ago, that profit solely on how many pairs of eyes it can attract no matter the means, or newspapers usually bankrolled by individuals or groups with agendas which rarely if ever win industry awards for performance.

You give 'equal time' or respect to manipulative propaganda, give non-science the same hearing as science... well slip slide and away. There were regulations for broadcasting, communications and postal distribution that were put there from hard experience, which were removed. These need to be restored just like the voting rights act and the Brady bill by 'we the people'. Who decides is 'we the people'. The people have to be ever vigilant against manipulations by the sorts with agendas who want to 'deregulate'; always look very critically and closely at them, so-called right or left.

I want to see a genuinely strong and healthy U.S.A., we sure are not seeing that lately by any measure. :^(
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