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Neil Lindholm Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005 Location: China Posts: 4949
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 10:01pm | IP Logged | 1
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QUOTE:
For a subordinate to fail to obey a confirmed order from the president to deploy these weapons is not out of the bounds of reason, but it would be an unlawful act. |
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When I was in the Canadian Military, we were taught it was not unlawful to disobey an illegal order. Bombing an area with no provocation or declaration of War would be an illegal act and the subordinate would be under no obligation to follow it. I imagine US Military law is similar.
I imagine if he tried something like that, Pence would be called immediately and the 25th Amendment would activate.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 16107
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 10:08pm | IP Logged | 2
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If that were the case, the nuclear deterrent would be ineffective. A hostile power could launch a nuclear attack and it would hit while the subordinates double-checked whether there was provocation or not.
ICMBs will hit faster than subordinates can consult.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 16107
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 10:18pm | IP Logged | 3
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Consider this quote from Bruce G. Blair, an expert on nuclear security who sadly died last summer :
"In the atomic age, when decisions must be made very quickly, the presidency has evolved into something akin to a nuclear monarchy. With a single phone call, the commander in chief has virtually unlimited power to rain down nuclear weapons on any adversarial regime and country at any time. You might imagine this awesome executive power would be hamstrung with checks and balances, but by law, custom and congressional deference there may be no responsibility where the president has more absolute control. There is no advice and consent by the Senate. There is no second-guessing by the Supreme Court."
LINK to source article, which was written in 2016.
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Marc Baptiste Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3655
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 10:27pm | IP Logged | 4
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Peter,
The newspaper is called "The San Francisco Chronicle".
As for obeying an illegal order - I thought we settled this after World War II. "I was just following orders" is no longer anywhere NEAR good enough.
Marc
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 16107
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 10:44pm | IP Logged | 5
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Have a read of this: LINK
I have no doubt it's there, but I don't see the article you're talking about on the SF chronicle. Any chance of a link?
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Brian Floyd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 8781
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Posted: 16 January 2021 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | 6
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If a POTUS ever launches nuclear weapons without provocation - especially if its because he or she is butthurt over not being re-elected - I'm pretty sure they won't have much time to regret it.
Even if the missiles are stopped from hitting their target, they're going to be charged with a multitude of crimes, including treason. And possibly even handed over to the country they nuked or tried to nuke.
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 17 January 2021 at 9:11am | IP Logged | 7
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Brian F. - I believe President Murder doesn't care about regretting his actions. He's been impeached twice and Wednesday afternoon, they'll probably be queueing up to charge him with seditious and treasonous crimes. UNLESS THEY ARE DISTRACTED BY, SAY, A NUCLEAR WAR.
I don't trust him. And in a nuclear scenario, who would have time to double check the president? Is he believable? Doesn't matter - he's the one to launch them. Again, unless someone objects and a gallows is erected for regicide. They would probably be the best case scenario.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31511
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Posted: 17 January 2021 at 11:29am | IP Logged | 8
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Here’s the thing about him launching nukes. The man NEVER does anything if it doesn’t benefit him. So, how is launching them beneficial to him? Even if he sends them, he wouldn’t get to stay in office. Maybe as a distraction so no one will see him leave the country to evade the State of New York? Other than that, I don’t see what he would gain by launching them.
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Jason Czeskleba Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004 Posts: 4655
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Posted: 17 January 2021 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | 9
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I agree with Brian Miller... Trump is not irrational, he’s narcissistic. His entire life is viewed through the prism of “how will this benefit me?” And everything he does is transactional. I don't see how he would think starting a nuclear war would benefit him.
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Brian Floyd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 8781
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Posted: 17 January 2021 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | 10
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Flee the country? lol. Do you think there would be anywhere on the planet he'd be safe after doing something like that?
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8235
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Posted: 17 January 2021 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | 11
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Then again, if he actually had all of his marbles, he would have realized that all he had to do in order to easily win 2020 was to show some leadership and listen to the experts regarding Covid. He ended up acting against his own self interest, though I'm sure he didn't see it that way.
Edited by Vinny Valenti on 17 January 2021 at 1:56pm
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4635
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Posted: 17 January 2021 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | 12
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I've never had any worry about 'he has the nuke numbers', even when he was blathering about "his" generals! I was surprised Pelosi brought it up really, I guess maybe constituents kept mentioning it to her? I'm sorry people got the kind of glowing mushroom cloud nightmares that were more common back in the early '80s and '60s.
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