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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 12 January 2017 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 1
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This would be the same storyline where Wolverine invited his teammates to Japan for his wedding to Mariko, correct? And Wolverine is letting Rogue absorb his powers to heal herself because she saved Mariko's life, right? Did I forget that Wolverine and Rogue became an item directly after this issue?
I stand by my interpretation that the kiss was not sexual. Rogue tried to kiss Wolverine before, yes, but Wolverine was not coming on to Rogue.
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Jason Czeskleba
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Joined: 30 April 2004
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| Posted: 12 January 2017 at 8:08pm | IP Logged | 2
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Matt Hawes wrote:
| Edit to note: "Ms. Marvel" #23 (the final published issue of that series) was cover dated April, 1979. "Uncanny X-Men" #125 was cover dated September, 1979. I believe that issue is where we first meet Jason (Mastermind) Wyngarde. |
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Actually, Jason Wyngarde first appeared in X-Men #122 (cover date June 1979). That's what's puzzling about this Ms. Marvel story... it doesn't precede the story in X-Men, but seems to have been created concurrently with it, since with lead time X-Men #122 would have to have been written and drawn around the same time as the story slated for Ms. Marvel #25 (which would have had a cover date of August 1979). So was the intention to have Wyngarde brainwash both Ms. Marvel and Phoenix and intersect the stories?
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Ronald Joseph
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| Posted: 12 January 2017 at 8:13pm | IP Logged | 3
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I stand by my interpretation that the kiss was not sexual.
I am not saying it was sexual as far as Logan's intent. Just weird considering their ages and the way the scene was presented. That's all.
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 12 January 2017 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | 4
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Jason Czeskleba wrote:
| ...Actually, Jason Wyngarde first appeared in X-Men #122 (cover date June 1979)... |
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Thanks for the correction! I knew I was close, but I haven't read the books in years. I'm getting rusty!
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Matthew Wilkie
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Joined: 09 March 2011
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 13 January 2017 at 6:54am | IP Logged | 5
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I'll add: from an artist's standpoint, Paul Smith pulling the camera waaaaay back gives the scene a more intimate ("private") feel than a kiss on the forehead or cheek would need.
***
I agree the pulling back of the camera does make it feel more intimate but I think there is some miscolouring in that final panel that makes it looks like Wolverine is kissing her face when in fact we can see the white streak in her hair much lower.
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Brian Hague
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| Posted: 13 January 2017 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 6
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The scenes shown above barely scratch the surface of what one could read into some of Claremont's work. I'm thinking here of the Shadow King in Professor X's form psychic assault on the underage Mirage in "X-Men vs. the Micronauts" and the Shadow King in Karma's form having control of the underage New Mutants in their own title.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 13 January 2017 at 8:52am | IP Logged | 7
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Shadow King! GAH!!! Why could Chris never let a victory BE a victory???
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Raj Dhami
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Joined: 07 March 2008
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| Posted: 13 January 2017 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 8
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Is there any chance we are reading way too much into some of this stuff? I would agree with the original assessment of Logan wanting to repay his debt to Rogue. No insinuation of any sexual expression whatsoever.
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Joseph Greathouse
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| Posted: 13 January 2017 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 9
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Agreed, I never read anything sexual then. As a parent today, I still don't see anything sexual about it. Simon Sinek, in his talk for Why Leaders Eat Last, shares the story of a general who goes to an injured soldier and kisses him on the lips as he is carted away onto an emergency helicopter. It is a touching moment in both stories more than anything weird or sexualized.
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Vinny Valenti
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| Posted: 13 January 2017 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 10
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I see nothing wrong with the Rogue/Wolverine scene. She took a deadly hit meant for his fiancé in the process of proving how she'd reformed, and Wolverine allowed her to absorb his healing factor (and memories, which should probably have been addressed at some point) in order to save her, in addition to showing appreciation for saving Mariko. It was a big deal to see Wolverine forgive a former villain like that.
As far as kissing her, it's true that he could have just taken off her glove and placed it on his face, but kissing was usually the method that Rogue used to steal another's powers, anyway.
I'd place the scene in the "Good Claremont" column.
However, the whole incessant usage of Farouk/Shadow King past his original intent would go in the "Bad Claremont" column. |
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 13 January 2017 at 2:35pm | IP Logged | 11
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Eye of the beholder! When I did the scene in GENERATIONS in which the adult Superman kisses the teenage Lana (at her request) DC received a small tsunami of complaints from male fans. What did TPTB think of my having turned Superman into a child molester??Meanwhile, mail from female fans was at the other end of the spectrum. They declared the scene "beautiful" and "like something out of a fairy tale." Which was what I intended.
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Rod Collins
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Location: Australia
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| Posted: 13 January 2017 at 7:17pm | IP Logged | 12
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"...which would have had a cover date of August 1979, we meet Hellfire Club members Leyland, Pierce and Selene..."
I thought Selene wasn't introduced until the New Mutants in the early 80s? Would this have also been her first appearance? Something feels off here to me.
*****
Yep, something's off, my memory. It's actually Tessa, not Selene. Would have posted earlier, but I've been out of town for a couple of days.
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