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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
Posted: 23 February 2018 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I hear many people cite how when they were kids guns were in window racks of all the trucks at school and nobody got shot. They say, "it is a different world now" to which usually comment that it is so different that guns have no place in the public anymore.
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
Posted: 23 February 2018 at 11:37am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Bill C.: A crazy man with an automatic rifle is unquestionably a threat. An officer of the law, or a military person, is a trained and experienced defender, who should have the knowledge of tactics. I wouldn't expect a police officer to run into any situation screaming and firing off shots randomly; I'd expect them to analyze the situation and effect a resolution as quickly and safely as possible. That, I feel, trumps much of the "advantage" of the wielder of an automatic weapon.

Andrew B.: I agree with your statement to gun advocates. Part of what the NRA should represent is the safe use of guns, proper storage of guns and ammunition*, and extensive training on how and WHEN to use guns. If they're not fulfilling that main responsibility, then they are indeed failing the public, and their toys should be taken away from them. This includes anyone who feels that arming a person makes that person an expert marksman instead of a death dealing novice... such as teachers or principals.

*Without bullets, an assault rifle is just a fancy club.
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Bill Catellier
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 September 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 3225
Posted: 23 February 2018 at 8:34pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Regarding the Deputy failing to enter..... it's inexcusable.  The handgun vs rifle issue is irrelevant.  There are many possible outcomes to entering... 
1- Find and stop the shooter. By whatever means. (Best)
2- draw fire. Every bullet sent his way is one not aimed at a child. 
3- force him to flee.  He’s shooting at children.  Unlikely to engage police
4- he knows law enforcement is in scene and commits suicide or surrenders. 
5- he’s able to give real time locations of shooter and victims even if he never catches up.  
6- Dying.  Terrible, but again it’s a bullet not aimed at a child. Plus it’s the job. 

It’s the harsh truth of the job. Dying is possible, but he needed to enter.  It’s ok to be scared, but he needed to enter.  The theory of waiting for a tactical team (SWAT) is outdated.  You enter and engage. 
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4847
Posted: 23 February 2018 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I’ve been reading that a lot of major companies are dropping their ties to the NRA..... is this a small step in the right direction finally??

-C!
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
Posted: 23 February 2018 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Against an AR-15, the deputy (deputies?) would have been walking into their own executions. They are cowards, but live cowards. 
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4847
Posted: 23 February 2018 at 10:10pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Amusing how many people are blaming the Sheriff's deputy for being afraid to face a gunman (armed with an AR-15) aren't even courageous enough to face criticism from teenagers.

-C!
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3101
Posted: 23 February 2018 at 10:48pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

The keyboard militiae heaping abuse on the deputy are despicable. It takes some balls telling a stranger he should have gone to his death, especially from behind the safety of a computer. I expect every single one of those heroes will rush towards gunfire in short order.
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Marcio Ferreira
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 September 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 2518
Posted: 24 February 2018 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Surrender your weapons! You don't need them! Police will protect you!

(FBI and Police fails horrendously)

How dare you criticize the police! Keyboard militia! Surrender your weapons!
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133458
Posted: 24 February 2018 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Surrender your weapons! You don't need them! Police will protect you!

(FBI and Police fails horrendously)

••

How many shootings, versus how many police "failures"?

Are all these dead children a fair trade? How much is a gun worth, in terms of piled up corpses?

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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
Posted: 24 February 2018 at 9:49am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Marcio, did you ever provide evidence of your statement a few posts back?

 Marcio Ferreira wrote:
I saw recent statistics that in USA burglary is more likely to occur when owners are not home (and cannot fight back with guns) while in UK robbers tend to intrude when people are still inside the house because they know that they cannot respond with force.

I did ask you a few pages back if you had any evidence pertaining to UK burglars choosing to intrude when people are at home (personally, without surveying actual burglars - and how could anyone do that? - I am not sure where the evidence would be).

EDIT: I did ask and you didn't reply. And (this applies to everything), incontestable statistics compiled by a legitimate organisation, not "My friend saw or said..."


Edited by Robbie Parry on 24 February 2018 at 9:52am
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
Posted: 24 February 2018 at 10:10am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Joe Z: "Against an AR-15, the deputy (deputies?) would have been walking into their own executions. They are cowards, but live cowards."

David M: "The keyboard militiae heaping abuse on the deputy are despicable. It takes some balls telling a stranger he should have gone to his death,"

Then maybe I'm one of these despicables, but I think that - as a last resort - that is the police's job. To be In Harm's Way to protect civilians. In an emergency or crisis, the officer might indeed have to take that risk... that's what they're paid for.

But a lot of people seem to think that this deputy would have run into the building, right out in the open and making a perfect target of himself, and practically inviting the shooter to take him down.

I'm not a police officer, and I could never be one; I don't have the right temperament, and I certainly no longer have the physical skills. I wonder if anyone here, or any of the multitudes of critics have American police training for such situations. I have reason to believe that, now more than ever, such situations are probably covered when a cadet goes to the police academy. Tactics, situational awareness, such of that nature which, again, I'm not unquestionably familiar with.

I'm curious if any of my fellows here are police who could provide further insight into this. I think a professional might give us some insight to this matter. I've briefly touched on this once or twice with one or two police friends I have, and they all agree; they don't want to get shot and killed. But they know that their job has that kind of dangers, and they stay with it anyhow.

In any case, I think we don't give police enough respect for the danger they face.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3101
Posted: 24 February 2018 at 11:13am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

I agree it's the policeman's job, and agree he should have done it. His resignation would be very appropriate. When a police shoots a twelve year old with a toy, I'm one of the people who thinks the guy knew he signed up for a risky job and should have been prepared to take a bullet if it meant sparing a child's life. You and I have basic taxpayer expectations.

That's different from dogpiling on a guy for effectively freezing in combat.

I'm probably getting ahead of myself, since as a Florida cop he's probably as dirty as a snake and will perform a barking asshole routine once he finally musters the poor judgement to answer questions on camera. But for the time being as far as I know he's one of the victims of this violence.
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