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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1956
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| Posted: 24 December 2018 at 8:35am | IP Logged | 1
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I wonder if the one good, true use of "slabbing" comics would be to permanently seal up pencil art so no jabroni can ink it later.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133514
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| Posted: 24 December 2018 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 2
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Sometimes I struggle with it. If someone pays good money for a piece of artwork, do they buy the right to do whatever they want with/to it? I like to think there’s some inherent respect for the work in the purchase, but then, as noted, I’ve seen pieces inked and colored and god wot for years. Decades. Ultimately, is it any different from turning in pages to Marvel or DC, and them unleashing the production staff upon them?
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Jason K Fulton
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Joined: 23 September 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 758
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| Posted: 24 December 2018 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 3
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All of the art I own is penciled / inked by the same person (unless JB had a mystery assistant helping with his FF pages). I think it'd be really neat to own some pencil-only pages at some point in the future.
I assume applying the fixative you've mentioned before would make inking the pages impossible once they're out of your hands?
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Brandon Carter
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2339
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| Posted: 24 December 2018 at 9:43am | IP Logged | 4
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Based on the number of times I have seen collectors get pencil pages inked (and sometimes even colored) I must assume little value is placed on the pencils. In fact, after the pages are inked, the pencils are ERASED, and as completely as possible! For me, as a collector, it’s a rare and special treat when I can still see the pencils on the page, under the inks. But I know I am in the minority.
***** I am with you as part of the minority on this one, JB. I agree that it is a special treat to still see pencils on the page. Why are the pencils traditionally erased after inking?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 24 December 2018 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 5
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Pencils are erased to reduce the chance of them being printed, and muddying the image.
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
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| Posted: 24 December 2018 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 6
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Pencils, as JB has explained, are rarely seen intact due to the art process from the previous decades of comic book production. I can't understand why anyone would have penciled pages inked. Vellum can be put over the originals or the pencils can be light boxed. In more recent years, computers allow us to scan the pencils, converted to blue line and inked with the final art having the "blue" channel removed so any uncovered pencils disappear.
I think the majority of collectors treat their collections as personal museum exhibits. I have some pencils for a comic that never was published or inked and I have some "try out" pages from various pencilers that were submitted to hopefully get work. The idea of inking them is crazy, but I realize there are people are out there that can't see them for what they are and want them "finished".
Also, if blue lines are being inked for a book then all of the pencils should go to the penciler and all of the inked blue line pages should go to the inker. That way they both get their contributions to the published work. The two thirds to one third art split was a compromise. This more modern capability there is no need for such a compromise, right?
Edited by Eric Ladd on 24 December 2018 at 2:55pm
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Jonathan A. Dowdell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 434
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| Posted: 24 December 2018 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 7
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The erasing actually goes back to the photographic process. When the art work was photographed the negative film was designed to capture black or white - no mid-tones. Any tone, pencil or ink, above a certain darkness - not sure what the the grade was - would show up as black on the negative (or white since it was a negative). The blue line was below the grade/density to show up on the photographic negative. I'm sure the production staff would QC the film but probably did not have the time or the capability to touch-up the art beyond certain issues. The negative then created a positive when transferred to the printing plates.
This is from my high school graphic arts class in 1983 so I may have a few basics wrong but this is what I remember from the photographing of the art and printing on an offset press?
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 24 December 2018 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | 8
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That’s what I said.
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Eric Ladd
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| Posted: 24 December 2018 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 9
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I think mid-tones may have also depended on the printing process. Remember that Warren Publishing routinely did "gray tones" for art in Creepy and Eerie. Also, DC and Marvel went from metal plates in the printing process to plastic plates (sometime in the 70's?) the end product was no longer capable of fine detail let alone the "gray" that can be done with a better printing process.
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Vinny Valenti
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Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8145
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| Posted: 24 December 2018 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 10
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I remember going to my only San Diego Con back in 2006 and seeing an unused pencils-only page for FF#6 selling for $5000. I thought that was very much underpriced. In my mind, the fact that it was raw Kirby pencils, plus the fact that it was from the dawn of the Silver Age, plus the fact that it was never published anywhere else would have made it even more valuable.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 24 December 2018 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 11
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The idea of hiring someone to ink over pencils is really crazy -- a destructive act that is totally needless given the multiple alternatives. You can have inked art derived from the pencils via these alternatives and the original pencils. Or you can destroy the original pencils for all time.
I have a page of JB's pencils from Angel: Blood and Trenches and would never dream of obliterating his art by having someone ink over the top. [shivers].
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 24 December 2018 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | 12
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BLOOD AND TRENCHES was not drawn to be inked.
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