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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31160
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Posted: 29 March 2021 at 8:20pm | IP Logged | 1
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After Secret Wars II, Marvel didn't do another one until Infinity Gauntlet in the 90s.
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Atlantis Attacks Evolutionary War Acts of Vengeance
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Joel Tesch Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006 Posts: 2830
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Posted: 29 March 2021 at 9:27pm | IP Logged | 2
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Secret Wars having odd portrayals seems to be a popular opinion in this board, but I haven't seen any examples offered (besides one Spidey/X-Men fight). I never noticed anyone being more out of character than they would have been in an average guest spot.
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Look at Ultron, The Lizard, Klaw, Wolverine - their actions and dialogue -- Molecule Man (a continuation of Shooter's Avengers storyline from a few years earlier where he completely and inexplicably changed the Molecule Man's personality). And 1000 times worse than Spider-Man vs the X-Men (which I never had a problem with. Short, quick skirmish), is Ben Grimm and Hawkeye playing pattycake with the Lizard and Klaw. Pattycake.
Edited by Joel Tesch on 29 March 2021 at 9:28pm
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5088
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Posted: 30 March 2021 at 4:12am | IP Logged | 3
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You had DC produce COIE over a year, but Legends and Millennium were done in a couple of months, and apart from Invasion and War of the Gods, DC tended to have less crossovers that impacted on to their individual books to any great extent.
They kept things more to the Annuals like Armageddon 2001 and The Darkness Within.
As for Infinity Gauntlet / War / Crusade they seemed to be never ending intrusions on books over a 3 year period.
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5088
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Posted: 30 March 2021 at 7:53am | IP Logged | 4
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Interms of Jim Shooter, I do think he was the right thing for Marvel from 1978 - 1984 after the previous EiC turmoil that had embraced Marvel.
It always struck me that he fixed a number of problems at Marvel such as ensuring books were on time, expanding and developing Marvels books and having an eye for talent.
An interview I watched with Tom DeFalco did say that Shooter did become too strict / dictorial with his editorial mandates, and that under DeFalco's run as EiC he tried to empower the editors and creators more than they were used to during the last few years of the Shooter period.
If Shooter had walked away from Marvel after Secret Wars, I think history may have viewed him in a different light.
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John Wickett Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016 Location: United States Posts: 862
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Posted: 30 March 2021 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 5
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Atlantis Attacks Evolutionary War Acts of Vengeance
I wasn't counting these because they were either confined to the annuals (which could be skipped without impacting the storyline in the monthly books), or in the case of Acts of Vengeance, only included the Avengers family of titles.
Likewise, from DC I wouldn't count Janus Directive, JLApes, Ghosts, or whatever they called the event where the annuals had the Pulp theme.
Crisis, Legends, Milennium, Invasion, War of the Gods, Armageddon 2001, etc. each crossed over the entire DC universe, and included a miniseries that was supported by multiple tie-ins.
Maybe that's nitpicking, but I feel like the huge, line wide crossovers tend to produce a lot more crappy books than the more contained events.
After Crisis and Legends, its hard to find a really good DC crossover; including Genesis (Sorry John). I'm sure one of the reasons is too many cooks in the kitchen.
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5088
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Posted: 30 March 2021 at 9:22am | IP Logged | 6
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Armageddon 2001 was confined to the Annuals. It began and ended in them.
The spin offs, etc. happened after the man story was resolved.
Acts of Vengenace carried on in to the following (non-Avengers titles):
- Cloak and Dagger
- New Mutants
- Doctor Strange
- Power Pack
- Fantastic Four
- The Spider-Man books
- Alpha Flight
- Daredevil
- The Punisher and Punisher War Journal
- Moon Knight (he was no longer an Avenger)
I consider Janus Directive a crossover as it involved the Suicide Squad, Checkmate, Captain Atom, Manhunter and Firestorm.
Edited by Greg McPhee on 30 March 2021 at 9:22am
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Jim Burdo Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2020 Location: United States Posts: 377
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Posted: 30 March 2021 at 9:57am | IP Logged | 7
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Recently updated article from Nerds on Earth considering Jim Shooter's tenure more positively.
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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5088
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Posted: 30 March 2021 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 8
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Reading that article it's interesting to wonder if Image would have happened to the same extent under Jim Shooter.
Form what I've seen of the "Imae Story", MacFarlane was leading the charge and Liefeld went along fpr the ride. It always seemed that Jim lee was the more reluctant participant to a point, and Silvestri, Portacio and Valentino had their own reasons.
But, MacFarlane has a hatred for DC and Marvel, and really just wanted to stick it to them as well.
Would those artists have got put on the pedestal they were?
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James Johnson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 2155
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Posted: 30 March 2021 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 9
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That article from Nerds on Earth is full of inaccuracies.
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4635
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Posted: 30 March 2021 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 10
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In the youtube interview he talks a lot about the Dazzler character and how it was tied-in to Casablanca records.
He may not have established the inventory story at Marvel but expanded it. There had been a problem throughout the first part of the '70s of last moment, or near last moment, reprint issues. It had gotten pretty awful. When both War Of The Worlds/Killraven and Deathlok had to have fill-in reprints they'd reprinted something from just a year earlier for the former (with at least a P. Craig Russell framing bit making it a very long flashback) and the old Marvel Super-Heroes debut one-shot of the Guardians Of the Galaxy for the latter.
I'd give points for the 'New Universe' attempt, but it was a bit like the final suburban Korvac and the white leisure suited Beyonder in terms of appearance... let's take a visual medium and make things look less visually spectacular and more average. Not a great foundation there although I hear good things about D.P. 7 (now talk about a very dull title name for it though). Did E.C. comics' M.D. or Psychoanalysis titles set the newsstands ablaze? I'm thinking Piracy and Valor would've outsold those ten to one. I was leaving and not coming back from going into a comic shop when I got a 'New Universe' bag and some other heavy promo for it in other things... as with the hard sell of Secret Wars I was sick of being told I had to get a whole bunch of titles or be left behind as a reader. I'm sure there are mint cases out there of a hundred of the first issues of all of these uniform black box frame cover design pieces of history nobody will ever read.
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 30 March 2021 at 11:21am
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Adam Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017 Posts: 1717
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Posted: 30 March 2021 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 11
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The biggest stumbling block for the New Universe may have been the artwork. I don't remember any of it being very exciting to look at aside from the JRjr/Al Williamson work for STAR BRAND.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31160
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Posted: 30 March 2021 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | 12
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You had some future guys like Mark Texiera on some of them.
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