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John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 865
Posted: 15 August 2022 at 4:11am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

"Yes, at the time of the emails, but the vast number no longer sensitive or so sensitive later."

First, whether the e-mails were still classified by the time they were recovered is irrelevant.  The fact they were classified when they were sent is what makes it a crime.

Second, many of the recovered e-mails have still not been made available to the public, because they remain classified.

"What? Not ruthlessly destroyed by the evil Hilary never to be seen again?"

Correct.  30,000 e-mails were turned over subject to the congressional subpoena, and 33,000 were deleted, which were also subject to the subpoena.  Of the deleted e-mails, roughly half were eventually recovered, and "some" (an unspecified number) were deemed by the FBI to be work related, making them government property.

"And very summarily closed again with much less fanfare than for the re-opening."

You are making Trump's point for him.  Clinton did exactly what Trump has been accused of doing, but her home wasn't raided by the FBI, and she was never prosecuted.

"Two wrongs' are not two wrongs, they are more like one wrong of incompetence shared by previous occupiers of the post that might have caused harm but did not..."

How do you know no harm was done?  We don't know the contents of the e-mails that were marked Top Secret; Special Access.  That is the highest level of classification.  And we don't know whether any of her e-mails were ever compromised.  It was only by accident that e-mails were found on Anthony Weiner's laptop; a device Huma Abedine should never have used to conduct State Department business.

If a foreign power did hack Clinton's e-mails and gain access to sensitive information, that is something the government would not likely disclose for strategic reasons.

You really want to excuse Hilary Clinton's conduct because she was incompetent?  Extremely careless and indifferent is more like it.  She certainly had enough training in the handling of classified documents that it is outrageous to suggest she didn't know how to properly handle classified information.

Like Trump, she did what was convenient for her, and willfully disregarded normal procedure.  Secretary Clinton is very fortunate she was not prosecuted and sent to prison over this. It is NOT a manufactured or minor scandle.




Edited by John Wickett on 15 August 2022 at 4:21am
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
Posted: 15 August 2022 at 4:27am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Who is excusing Hilary? She took responsibility for what she did do, just not what she didn't do that was political theatrical hyperbole and exaggeration continuous to the present. She was brought forward to answer all questions and did, Possibly they'll even investigate this yet again, but it will as it has mostly been, sheerly for the political theater.

From a previous administration Condi Rice did do the exact same things 'wrong'; that would be a two wrongs equally situation. Yet, it was only when Ms. Clinton was in office that there was suddenly any kind of issue at all. And a laxness that could have been exploited one, but wasn't.

While you're being played like fools running about for every scrap of details of this almost non-issue involving national security to bash the image of Hilary Clinton with, nothing was happening to a man who profited handsomely on no-contest contracts with the U.S. military running often empty support vehicles around Iraq in an invasion based on a lie about WMD, plus a president with oil interests buying record amounts oil reserves at record high prices per barrel at the same time. Total conflicts of interest costing many lives, making the future less secure, from two people most involved in selling a bogus need for an invasion and occupation.

A lot of people want to find fault with uppity know-it-all Hilary, understood, but people did their country a serious unforced error. Seeing Trump play on this same hugely trumped up 'scandal' yet again for more weaseling room for himself in a vastly different league of reckless misconduct, well, it turns my stomach more than Bill ever did, and he honestly did at times. You think if there had've been a way to go after Hilary as he promised to while running he wouldn't have? Even drafting a brand new very broad mishandling of material there was never close to enough to so-called 'lock her up' for. That very thing though can be applied to him successfully multiple times over.

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 15 August 2022 at 4:38am
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John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 865
Posted: 15 August 2022 at 4:40am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

"From a previous administration Condi Rice did do the exact same things 'wrong'; that would be a two wrongs equally situation. Yet, it was only when Ms. Clinton was in office that there was suddenly any kind of issue at all. And a laxness that could have been exploited one, but wasn't."

During Clinton's tenure, there was an unprecedented, department wide disregard for procedural norms.  It was "suddenly an issue" because many Republicans accused Clinton of using the influence of her position to set up "Pay to Play" scenarios, whereby foreign powers or individuals were given preferential treatment by the government after funneling money into the Clinton Foundation.  Those who accused Clinton claimed her inner circle did not use normal channels of communication because they did not want their communications to be seen.

I agree with your comment regarding Bush/Cheney.  The unfortunate reality is that there is corruption at the highest level of government among members of both parties.

I find it ironic and reprehensible that someone like Trump, who campaigned on "draining the swamp" now wants to excuse his misconduct by saying previous administrations did the same thing.  Yes, they did do the same thing, and it was just as wrong when they did it as it was when he did.
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1956
Posted: 15 August 2022 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

May his prison term be a blessing.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133459
Posted: 15 August 2022 at 1:02pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Nothing will come of this. Accept that. You’ll sleep better.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7822
Posted: 15 August 2022 at 2:35pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

That's where I am at the moment JB.
Same with all the shenanigans going on with the UK
politics.
No one is going to be prosecuted, no one is going to be
held accountable and in the case of the UK, no one is
going to feel shamed into actually coming in to work and
sorting out this economic shit show that we have going on
at the moment.

Speaking of which, and apologies in advance for a thread
drift question, can someone please explain to me why
increasing interest rates will stop me spending money
when I am already screwed in that department from the
increase in home energy from £1,000 a year to a projected
increase of £5,000 per year.
I don't need an interest rate rise to stop my spending,
that's just misery as the £4,000 a year increase in home
energy and massive increases in all the other inflatory
increases have done a bang up job of doing that.

I don't see how increasing interest rates can do a damn
about inflation when inflation is being caused by
increased fuel that shows no sign of decreasing. That
fuel increase has led to increases in production,
processing, manufacturing, distribution and retail costs.
How does interest increases address any of this? It
can't. The costs will continue to spiral until the fuel
costs are addressed.

Thread drift/rant over.
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1956
Posted: 15 August 2022 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I guess nobody's ever been disappointed when they don't have any expectations.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17700
Posted: 15 August 2022 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

What JB said.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133459
Posted: 15 August 2022 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

In life, I say aim high, so disappointment will at least have been worth the effort.

In politics I say expect the worst, and you will rarely be disappointed.

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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
Posted: 15 August 2022 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

All politicians are equally bad, equally to blame... very convenient. This is why things are where they are, also packs of intimidating b.s. artists like are pressuring Garland right now. Yep, all down to one guy doing his job properly, but then he must be bad... and to blame for something, anything will do, too. Why vote. No way out. A pretty sad state and a long long way back from. Howard Dean gave a phony sounding 'yeah' so that was it for him, a laughing stock supposedly, unelectable, a loser, yet it's the liberal media in charge of everything?

Keep competent employees regardless of liking them or them having personality, do not throw them out, they are not that common, and don't hire b.s. artists, including televangelist salesmen, especially not for the top jobs... but then if nobody can be up to your standards and/or you can't be very bothered (and yes, of course everyone has some dirt on their hands, that is a no-brainer) then you become an everyone for themselves nation which is not a society. If an FDR appeared there'd be fault to exaggerate and then hate on, he had an affair, and he could never be 'strong' enough naturally, too open to compromises perhaps (which really is what governing literally is when it's working).

If you really think there is any equivalency between Hilary's pathetic little mini 'failures' (which she answered to, even the ludicrous theatrical type questions, not plead the fifth over four hundred effing times) and the genuinely 'unprecedented' scale of Trump and co.'s deliberate destructive and damaging actions... I guess you'll enjoy the hate and jaded nihilism and where that gets you, which you apparently don't enjoy now? Yeah, next guy will be worse, because the sane always didn't stand up, came down to one guy who was replaced with a McCarthy type who will ultimately say anything they are fed, or people brushed aside violence chatter as mere rhetoric covered by freedom of speech... a million cuts as they say.

Just knowing sometimes is all we can do, and I believe it is actively doing something, but buying lazy propaganda that drums up the apathy as hard fact is not doing that. The con continues and he'll possibly see you again in 2024, especially if 'his' chosen anointed gain in the mid-terms. Great. Again. :^(

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 15 August 2022 at 7:16pm
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5092
Posted: 15 August 2022 at 8:29pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I guess all we can hope for then is that KFC, a Big Mac and cholesterol help us to MAGA. 
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John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 865
Posted: 15 August 2022 at 9:09pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

"All politicians are equally bad, equally to blame... very convenient."

Nobody said that.  I said there are corrupt politicians in both parties, including Hilary Clinton, who I believe is among the worst of them.

There are also people in both parties who are good public servants that do a good job.  As a Republican, here are 5 Democrats I have supported in my state, and whom I will continue to support in 2014 because they have integrity and are good at their jobs:

Aaron Ford, NV State Attorney General
Zach Conine, NV State Treasurer
Debbie Conway, Clark County Recorder
Steve Wolfson, Clark County District Attorney
Ross Miller, Clark County Commissioner (former Secy of State and AG) 
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