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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
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| Posted: 31 August 2022 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | 1
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“but that's not what's happening”
I think you are misinformed. And you refer to the judge as a man,”himself”, but judge Cannon is a woman.
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John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 865
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| Posted: 31 August 2022 at 7:11pm | IP Logged | 2
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"I think you are misinformed. And you refer to the judge as a man,”himself”, but judge Cannon is a woman."
"Himself" was a typo. You're right about that.
Regarding the government having an opportunity to respond before the judge decides whether to appoint a special master, FRCP 53(b)(1) requires the judge to give both parties notice, and the opportunity to be heard before a decision is made.
At this point an order has been issued setting a date and time for the hearing (this Thursday at 1PM). Pursuant to the scheduling order, the DOJ had until yesterday to submit an Opposition to Trump's Motion, which they did.
Trump must file any written response to the government's Opposition today.
The Order indicated the judge had preliminary intent to appoint a special master, but says "This Order should not be construed as a final determination on Plaintiff’s Motion."
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
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| Posted: 31 August 2022 at 11:02pm | IP Logged | 3
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On Monday, August 22, the Motion for the Special Master was submitted weeks after the raid on Mar-a-Lago. On Saturday, Judge Cannon stated she was going to assign a Special Master, but it wasn’t her final decision. That is what I am talking about. DOJ announced Monday they had already completed their assessment and had already returned privileged documents. What judge publicly announces a sort of ruling? My comment was about fairness. How fair is it to anyone or even the judicial system to have a judge state their potential to lean one way or the other on a ruling with the caveat, “but this is not my final answer”. What the hell is her courtroom like? An episode of Who Wants to be a Millionaire? Would you still hang on that caveat if the judge stated she was leaning toward not appointing a Special Master? I apologize for saying you are misinformed. You are aware of the issue, but choose to ignore it.
Edited by Eric Ladd on 31 August 2022 at 11:03pm
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 31 August 2022 at 11:58pm | IP Logged | 4
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I saw some widely smiling woman on MSNBC of all places going on about how Trump might not know what was or wasn't classified or at what level, and as this was someone generally very critical of Trump (was against his having any access once Biden was sworn in) I suppose the news will continue to be "weak as water" as Mrs. Slocombe on Are You Being Served might say in holding the orange creep responsible even minimally for anything ever if this is MSNBC. :^(
Gosh, it's not like he incited a mob to violence against his own VP with lies or anything, right? He just didn't know, couldn't know, or otherwise wasn't responsible in obstruction regarding the documents he shouldn't have had in his unsecured clutches for no purpose that can be 100% proven. Sure, benefit of the doubt; even if there was no doubt they will cook some up out of nothing. He had no way of knowing according to smart intel lady on MSNBC even.
I've said before, legal rulings seem to be flip a coin at best, but more predetermined for the benefit of an extreme few, usually celebrities. So please stop elevating celebrities I say!
I got better news on my tests today than I might've hoped, so thanks for any good thoughts! :^)
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Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2230
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| Posted: 01 September 2022 at 12:53am | IP Logged | 5
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Just for context, Reality Winner stole 1 (one) document and got 5 years in jail.
As widely reported by the news, Trump has now admitted (see below) that he was in possession of these documents on Truth Social. I guess his lawyers advised him to just keep yappin'?
If I'm reading this right, he seems to think the problem was the mess, and not that he had them at all?
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 01 September 2022 at 1:03am | IP Logged | 6
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Very fastidious about keeping his personal surroundings classy looking is Der Donald.
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John Wickett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 865
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| Posted: 01 September 2022 at 1:53am | IP Logged | 7
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Eric- the scheduling Order stated the judge had "preliminary intent" to appoint a special master, based on the evidence that was before her at the time.
The Order also provided guidance to the DOJ regarding what type of evidence she would need to see in their Opposition in order to change her mind, including a more detailed list of the documents seized pursuant to the warrant, and "a 'particularized' description of the status of the DOJ's' review of the seized property, including any filter review conducted by the privilege review team and any dissemination of materials beyond the privilege review team."
She also wants both parties to state their positions regarding the duties and responsibilities of a special master.
See here: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/judge-states-her-pre liminary-intent-to-appoint-special-master-requested-by-trump /ar-AA11aPgT
Its not unusual for judges to do this, nor is it unfair. They will often signal what they are thinking to the parties ahead of a Motion Hearing, in order to provide the attorneys with guidance about what the judge thinks both sides need to prove to win their arguments.
That's exactly what the judge did here. She was signaling to the DOJ that at that time she did not have enough information in front of her regarding the documents seized or the privilege review to justify not granting Trump's request, and letting them know what she would need to see in order to decide in their favor.
Edited by John Wickett on 01 September 2022 at 1:57am
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James Woodcock
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Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7822
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| Posted: 01 September 2022 at 11:48am | IP Logged | 8
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Trump doesn't claim to not have had confidential, secret
or top secret documents.
He will quite willing state that he had such documents.
As far as he is concerned, because he said those
documents had been declassified, they had been. It
doesn't matter that there were procedures to actually
declassifying a document - he didn't agree those
procedures had to be followed - his word was
law/rule/whatever you want to call it.
That's who he was, who he is and who he will ever be -
someone who thinks that what HE says is law/real, and
whatever anyone else says, if it goes against what he
says. is wrong. Regardless of rhyme, reason, evidence,
anything.
And it is not that he just thinks this, he genuinely
believes it. Once we understand that, we can understand
why he just cannot compute all this flack he has been
getting - because he really, really, does not believe he
has done anything wrong. But all these people that are
saying nasty things about him, hounding him for things
that were within his rights to do, all those people, THEY
are the people who are at war with democracy, because he
IS democracy.
We all just have to operate on that basis and it makes
things so much easier. Don't try to reason with him,
don't try to reason with his supporters, because they are
on the same train he is on anyway, just carry on and
reason with those who may not be on his train but have
sympathy for the sociopath. THOSE are the only people who
may be swayed into seeing sense here.
Anyone else is too far gone for rationality to ever be
able to make an impact.
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Vinny Valenti
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Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8138
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| Posted: 01 September 2022 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | 9
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"THEY are the people who are at war with democracy, because he
IS democracy."
--
That's so succinct and profound at the same time, James.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6462
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| Posted: 01 September 2022 at 7:17pm | IP Logged | 10
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James: "THEY are the people who are at war with democracy, because he
IS democracy."
**
Is he a Super-fan of democracy?
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 02 September 2022 at 12:16am | IP Logged | 11
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How have hysterical name-calling innuendos of conspiracy and personal victimhood equated as conservative values anyway? The piracy of the cons is what Trump has been all about, and Jan 6th was a conspiracy with full regalia including the yardarm to hang their own guy Pence on. Still it's Trump the poor victim, not Pence?
Tonight the pretzel brigade of Republicans backing Trump will try to paint Biden as the name-caller and divider... again; always accuse 'the enemy' of what one is most guilty of yourself. Most people just hope after the bazillionth time it might finally stop working on anybody.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7822
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| Posted: 02 September 2022 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 12
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It is a strange party that makes the guy who was going to
be murdered back the guy that sent the potential murderers.
Which is what the republicans are making Mike Pence do. And
I cannot believe that he has such political ambition that
he goes along with it rather than call Trump out on his
treacherous actions.
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