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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134678
Posted: 03 July 2025 at 7:00pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Hot babes, Mark, not thugs!!

I’ve seen that cartoon clumsily co-opted by just about every job imaginable.

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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7562
Posted: 03 July 2025 at 10:57pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I enjoyed Mr Cockrum's art and don't question his contributions to X-Men; like many great artists, he made substantial additions to their world and to Marvel in general. That said, I didn't start reading X-Men until well into JB's run on the book, so his contributions were already long in place when I came along as a reader.

It saddens me that he seems to have spent a long while blaming JB for his departure. An editor's job is to look out for the well-being of the book and the company, and sometimes that means making changes. I wish things might have been different, but that's not JB's fault or cross to bear. 

Hearing things like this, especially so long afterward and when the speaker isn't around to say anything, can pull up a lot of hurts. I'm sorry that this resurfaced because it ought to lie in the past. 

MHO.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 16213
Posted: 04 July 2025 at 12:05am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Cockrum largely invented the all-new, all-different X-Men. His costume design was pretty much second to none and he brought to Marvel a bunch of their most enduring 70s characters all in once go. Clearly a significant creator who deserves a vast amount of credit.

John Byrne took what Dave and Chris had created and took it to the next level, with his attractive artwork and air-tight plotting.

It is regrettable that Dave felt threatened by JB's part in the success of a title in which they both played a significant part. Art is not a competition, but life can be and we are all human.


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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2451
Posted: 04 July 2025 at 12:35am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I just feel the need to say that I've always considered Dave Cockrum to be the best designer in comics!

I certainly don't mean to slight fantastic designers like Neal Adams, Jack Kirby, or JB, but Cockrum had that special flair that made his costumes very pleasing to the eye.

The favorite members of the new X-Men, the best of the Legion of Super-Heroes, his own Futurians, the gorgeous Ms. Marvel revamp, and I always loved El Aguila!  Just a ton of wonderful designs!  It was the greatest shame that his FUTURIANS was cut short--I marvel at the designs he might have introduced in his creator-owned series.
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4930
Posted: 04 July 2025 at 1:26am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

In many ways it was so much nicew buying comics as a kid before they lifted the curtain and showed us how the sausage was made.

And I know that probably sounds at least a little hypocritical coming from someone posting on a comic creator's forum when I visit regularly, but the myth of the Marvel Bullpen was enough for me back then.

But the genie has long since been out of the bottle and contact with edotors, writers and artist is a lot easier than writing a letter to Marvel and hoping for a reply or better yet, that it gets published.

It's just the world we live in now.

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Craig Earl
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 13 July 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1527
Posted: 04 July 2025 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

In many ways it was so much nicew buying comics as a kid before they lifted the curtain and showed us how the sausage was made

----------------

I've mentioned this before, but Marvel UK were once based in my hometown, literally across the road from the newsagents where I used to get my comics.

For a while, I set my sights on working for them, especially after Stan had done such a great job of selling the harmonious relationships between every staff member.

In hindsight, that was a strange thing to believe in. 

Have you every worked in a multi-employee establishment (or sports team etc), where everyone got on with each other?
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134678
Posted: 04 July 2025 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Many fans picture(d) the Marvel offices as a kind of clubhouse, where everyone had fun nonstop, and everyone got along.

The reality was something very different. How could it be otherwise with so many active egos in play?

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ron bailey
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 1287
Posted: 04 July 2025 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Whenever I used to get into those Stan vs Jack and Stan vs Steve who-created-what late night arguments I used to answer that Stan created the greatest character of all, and that was the Marvel Bullpen. If I ever read a DC comic, it was because I liked Batman or Superman or whatever book individually, but at Marvel the creators were characters as much as the heroes they were working on. 
Brilliant, and it certainly worked on my young susceptible brain; I couldn't get enough. and it was also promotion for the creators' careers as well. 


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