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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 22 December 2018 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 1
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If a digital penciler receives "X" share of the inked pages, so would a penciler whose work was shot to blue line. If the pages are inked digitally, the point becomes moot. There ARE NO pages to return or divide.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 22 December 2018 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 2
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Inker sends you 2/3'rds of the inks and you send them 1/3 of the pencils. So both can be sold together...keeping them as a pair for the collectors. In a word, no. The whole point of having these pencils shot to blue is so I can KEEP THEM. The inker has NO claim to the uninked pencils, only such pages as his/her work is actually on, physically. (Important to note, too, that the inker in this scenario would receive the SAME number of pages as otherwise, for the same amount of work. No loss, whereas the penciller, if not receiving 2/3rds of the inked pages, WOULD be getting less than the standard "payment". Which ain't supposed to be the way it works.)
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 22 December 2018 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 3
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I agree that an inker should not have any 'right' to get any of the pencil pages in this separate process. I do know I could not work over blue pencil, I can't seem to see it well enough... I wonder if there could be red/pink line and shoot it through a different filter after? Or maybe some filtering glasses I could wear would make the blue color darker for me. I knew I was a bit color-blind not telling purple from brown... one eye moreso than the other. Geez, some crummy mutation I got, not exactly gifted. :^(
Comics are a craft to me, and if you have two sets of originals you'd think all the more for admirers and students of the craft to better appreciate the work.
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Jim Petersman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 653
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| Posted: 22 December 2018 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 4
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"(Important to note, too, that the inker in this scenario would receive the SAME number of pages as otherwise, for the same amount of work. No loss, whereas the penciller, if not receiving 2/3rds of the inked pages, WOULD be getting less than the standard "payment". Which ain't supposed to be the way it works.)"_______________________________________
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you, JB. The value of the inked pages is diminished by the existence of the pencil-only pages. In my mind, this isn't a matter of workload, it's a matter of compensation. The inker should still receive 1/3 of the total pie, but only from the pages that they worked on.
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Darren Taylor
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 6025
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| Posted: 22 December 2018 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 5
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--- In a word, no. ---
I agree. I guess I missed that the idea is to keep all the pencils. In that case, if the inker happened to be a digital one, that would be wonderfully convenient.
Another way to look at it is, signing the artwork.
(Presuming physical inks) If you and the inker were sat side-by-side at a Con and those inked pages came before you to be signed that would be okay as they would be the official inks to the series and wouldn't exist without your input. If however just your pencils were put before the inker to be signed, that would be odd as no trace of their work exists on the page.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 22 December 2018 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | 6
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Some people are looking at it from a collector getting things signed scenario, but the reason for existence of the comic art is to tell a story visually, not to sell original art to a collector. I would say you would want the pencils to stay together ideally but no, an inker shouldn't/wouldn't sign those, but the penciller I guess could sign inks based on their pencils if they want, or also not sign if they don't want.
Also, what would an inker be doing with someone else's physical work anyway? Something they didn't have any real connection to?
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 22 December 2018 at 2:43pm
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Philippe Negrin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 August 2007
Location: France
Posts: 2644
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| Posted: 23 December 2018 at 1:53am | IP Logged | 7
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I think this was the case for the Tower Chronicles by Bisley who did some fine textured pencil work that was inked on a copy by the inker. The Bisley pages are sold by Simon's dealer and the inker (can't remember his name) was also selling his own inked work. The pencils went for a higher price.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 23 December 2018 at 6:14am | IP Logged | 8
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The value of the inked pages is diminished by the existence of the pencil-only pages. In my mind, this isn't a matter of workload, it's a matter of compensation. The inker should still receive 1/3 of the total pie, but only from the pages that they worked on. ?
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Jim Petersman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2012
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| Posted: 23 December 2018 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 9
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Traditionally, the penciler and inker both did their work on the same paper, resulting in 30 (for ease of math) completely unique pages. The penciler received 20 and the inker received 10.
You are wanting to work under the same contract for division of end product, but alter the value of the pages the inker gets to keep by having them work off of copies. This creates 2 sets of work: the pencil only pages and the inked version. Imagine this being done during the Dark Phoenix storyline. Terry Austin would be sitting with far less valuable work in his vault because someone would already own the pencil-only pages.
Therefore, if you want to work off of the traditional contract, the entirety of artwork produced for the book should be counted. Again for ease of math, 30 pencil-only pages AND 30 inked pages for a total of 60 pages. The penciler receives 40 pages (all 30 off his pencil-only pages plus 10 of the inked) and the inker receives 20 of his inked pages back. The inker's page count is increased to compensate for the loss in value by having 2 versions of the work in existence and having his or her work produced on top of copies.
I guess you could argue that the ink-only pages have a higher value as those pages are what actually see print, but I have my doubts that that is how the market would view it.
Or you could just scrap the traditional contract and create your own for whatever division you see fit.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 23 December 2018 at 9:40am | IP Logged | 10
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Based on the number of times I have seen collectors get pencil pages inked (and sometimes even colored) I must assume little value is placed on the pencils. In fact, after the pages are inked, the pencils are ERASED, and as completely as possible! For me, as a collector, its a rare and special treat when I can still see the pencils on the page, under the inks. But I know I am in the minority. The fact that so many pencil only pages that find their way into the marketplace end up being inked demonstrates that even some inkers have but minimal respect for the pencil work.
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Jim Petersman
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 23 December 2018 at 11:32am | IP Logged | 11
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That's the difference between an actual collector and morons with money. I'd much rather have a page from the days of razor scratches, paste ups, and white-out than some perfectly pristine pin up of today (if physical artwork even exists in any appreciable number any more).
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Jeffrey Rice
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 September 2011
Location: United States
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| Posted: 23 December 2018 at 10:39pm | IP Logged | 12
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For myself, the chance of having the pencil art next to the inked copy would be amazing.
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