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Topic: X-MEN.ELSEWHEN.10--Comments Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10940
Posted: 11 April 2020 at 9:59am | IP Logged | 1 post reply


Thanks for the preview of the flashback, JB!



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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
Posted: 11 April 2020 at 11:27am | IP Logged | 2 post reply
I think salvaging Jean Grey from the mess that Phoenix had become was a noble enough thing, at the time I was happy to see that what with all the other heroines that had been killed or otherwise heavily wiped out.

1980: Phoenix and Jean Grey dead
1980: Ms. Marvel (as good as killed)
1982: Elektra dead
1982: get Ms. Marvel back as Binary
1983: Spider-Woman dead
1984: Terra (dead?)
1985: Supergirl dead
1986: get Jean Grey back (yay!)
1988: Batgirl (as good as killed)

A ray of light in 1986 as I was heading for the door in the wake of general darking, adulting and extremeing of everything Marvel and DC.

Elsewhen is better; the how it might've been but for the slings and arrows... or at least Jim Shooter I suppose. No need whatsoever to keep the Jamaica Bay cocoon.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133834
Posted: 11 April 2020 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 3 post reply
An interesting little moment today, drawing that Shuttle crash flashback. Something different in Jean’s face. What can it be?

Then, a moment of clarity. This is JEAN I’m drawing. Not a version of herself with the mind of a five year old. Honest to gosh JEAN. Smart. Sophisticated.

It’s somehow all in the eyes.

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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
Posted: 11 April 2020 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply
I have never seen that FF page before - and OH, how it fits in so well with the Phoenix Saga! Not to mention breathtaking art (and yet, here I am mentioning it - because it needs to appreciated.)

I always thought it kinda mean that Bobby, Alex, Lorna, and Sean weren't involved in "The Fate of the Phoenix" - and now I know why, at least a bit. I also used to tease myself, "See, they didn't get Iceman. If they had, they'd have beaten the Imperial Guard without Jean reverting to Phoenix." I'm a very naughty person. What can I say?

Ms. Jansen - you make good note of how heroines were treated in the 80s. But while you note the ones who were removed, one way or another, there were some who did get introduced. Rogue, Vixen, Gypsy, 1986: Wonder Woman recreated, Firebird, Firestar, Wolfsbane, Mirage, Karma, and prob'ly lots more that I forgot.

But you also missed some that went away. 1985 saw the death of Aquagirl, Lori Lemaris, Mary Marvel uncreated, Wonder Woman uncreated, Huntress, etc.

It can be tough to be a female character in comics...
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133834
Posted: 11 April 2020 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply
Don’t remind me, Eric! The whole time I was working on WONDER WOMAN, it seemed I had to fight an almost pathological need by DC to keep her weak. Turning her into an actual GODDESS I thought would fix that.*

Nope.

——————

* Interestingly enough, talking with civilians I have learned most of them seemed to think Diana was a goddess all along!

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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
Posted: 11 April 2020 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply
I'm glad I missed Tula, Aquagirl being kiboshed! I just found out. :^(

I do remember a lot of fire lady characters (another aspect of the Phoenix influence?)... Firehawk was neat in Firestorm which I followed, Frankie Raye/Nova in the FF of course... there was also a new female Firebrand in All-Star Squadron, Binary in X-Men, and Magma in The New Mutants. Firestar was invented for a tv cartoon to go with Spider-Man and Iceman (maybe the Human Torch was still tied-up contractually? Lucky the kiddies didn't get Herbie again), though I did have her mini-series with great Mary Wilshire art!
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Steven Queen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 28 February 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 955
Posted: 11 April 2020 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply
Thanks for the reply Peter. I think I get it now.
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James Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 2179
Posted: 11 April 2020 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply
The X-Men were not going to beat the Imperial Guard on the moon. Not with Gladiator in their ranks.
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James Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 2179
Posted: 11 April 2020 at 8:18pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I remember seeing the lobotomy scene in What If #27 before it was released in the PHOENIX: The Untold Story
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
Posted: 11 April 2020 at 10:20pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply
...and then Kitty is turned into a cute little pile of ashes and the universe is destroyed (although a lot of What Ifs might've ended the same, I didn't read every single one).

Do you think Shooter was behind the scenes instructing Mary Jo Duffy how to show them what might've been had he not intervened? Gradually it dawned on me what it all was; a right mess! Honestly, nothing after came close to the excitement of buying each issue of X-Men in the year 1980.
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Philippe Pinoli
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 03 September 2004
Location: France
Posts: 1331
Posted: 12 April 2020 at 3:51am | IP Logged | 11 post reply
The Suzan's mouth to mouth panel is a thing of beauty...the crying eye...the teardrop...OMG
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133834
Posted: 12 April 2020 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 12 post reply
Quite pleased with how this turned out.

Elsewhere...

Saw the inevitable attempt at coloring the Lilandra Phoenix on line. Apparently trying to fit Jean's colors to the new look, even without suitable holding lines.

Anyway, what I actually had in mind was pale yellow modeling on a mostly white figure.

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