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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31387
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| Posted: 21 April 2020 at 8:37am | IP Logged | 1
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"Beauty", indeed.
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Thad Studebaker
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1115
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| Posted: 21 April 2020 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 2
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Today’s page drives home what I enjoy so much about this era of Sentinels. Their “musculature” and overall shape and appearance, minus the face, is eerily human. Seeing them reacting to Reed’s device in such a human manner would, while being a relief, freak the bejeebers out of me. The Sentinels have evolved into such outwardly mechanical things that, today, a demise such as this would lose any kind of emotional impact.
PS to add: Now I’m wondering if the references to their screams mean something truly underhanded. Hmmmmm...
Edited by Thad Studebaker on 21 April 2020 at 9:10am
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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 21 April 2020 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 3
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So... the end of DoFP was that the X-Men did indeed succeed! VISIBLY AND OBVIOUSLY!
Mr. Byrne, I once again empathize that you were shackled to stories that you did not plan to tell and did not want to run. The frustration must have been Galactus level. A tangential question; when such occurred, who did the editor side with? (Well, obviously not you often enough, or you'd not have left, I guess...)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133852
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| Posted: 21 April 2020 at 9:36am | IP Logged | 4
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Problem was, I didn’t see the scripts until I saw the finished issue on sale. By that time, we were months past those issues. As I’ve said, one of my intentions behind DoFP was to give the X-Men a clean, undeniable WIN. Chris scuttled that with ONE PANEL (once again writing against what I had drawn). Adding insult to injury, I would later hear fans justifying Chris by saying that as written the X-Men of the Future became even MORE noble, since they acted knowing they would succeed only in creating an alternate timeline. The central point of my story was that they WOULDN’T. Excuse me, I feel a primal scream coming on.
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1964
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| Posted: 21 April 2020 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 5
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Seconding the praise for that Sentinel hand! That is Kirby genius filtered through Byrne gorgeous.
The talk of Kurt being demonically overcomplicated makes me think of Illyana. Does she exist at this point in continuity? I'm not lobbying to include her, just curious.
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Kevin Corcoran
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 151
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| Posted: 21 April 2020 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 6
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"It's Working!"
Johnny's exclamation doubles (for me) as a descriptor of the most recent post: the scale of the Sentinels compared to our heroes, their "weight" as their limbs react to Reed's "signal interrupter / virus," all 4 characters "standing / flying in character."
My final appreciation (for now) is the composition of the Sentinels: those in the background seem to have been "hit" first and are collapsing thusly; meanwhile those in the foreground appear to be on the outer crest of wave the signal scramblers.
Boy this is a blast
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16519
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| Posted: 21 April 2020 at 9:54am | IP Logged | 7
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Wolverine saying "beauty" reminds me of Bob and
Doug Mackenzie. Heh.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133852
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| Posted: 21 April 2020 at 10:01am | IP Logged | 8
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Not unintentionally!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 21 April 2020 at 10:04am | IP Logged | 9
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The talk of Kurt being demonically overcomplicated makes me think of Illyana. Does she exist at this point in continuity? I'm not lobbying to include her, just curious.••• At this point she was still an innocent little Siberian farm girl.
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1964
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| Posted: 21 April 2020 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 10
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Works for me! She's a great emotional anchor for Peter. Didn't need to become a wizard warrior.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133852
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| Posted: 21 April 2020 at 10:18am | IP Logged | 11
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Unfortunately, Chris has a very hard time allowing characters to be ordinary.
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 21 April 2020 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 12
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My favorite aspect of Nightcrawler was highlighted by Kitty's reaction of fear to his appearance. It gave reality and pathos to the character and his situation. He could be as tragic but often overcoming that and showing great humanity like Ben Grimm. I did not understand the repeated hammering on the 'fuzzy elf' cutesy thing that seems to dominate at times, it just seemed something to smash that apart and throw something potentially great out. For a moment I felt something for this man, his isolation, his humanity underneath... and thus for all the mutants trying to find their place in our world! He might make jokes at time, have fantasies of being Errol Flynn, but these were and should've been a facade. It was pretty neat that the most human character could've been the most unusual looking. It was also a great asset to have someone like Kitty that was exceptionally normal, mousey even... not the genius at maths ninja Shield agent looking like another posing fashion model (okay, some of the last part was cool to me too, can't stay mousey all the time). I guess she should grow over the years but I don't feel that was what happened... from the main character I identified with who had conflicts with parents and fears about strange people to a near stranger. The Kurt Wagner I thought I was getting to know disappeared under the happy-go-lucky fuzzy elf thing, and that 'dark' lecherous evil version from the Magik dimension or timeline also helped to undermine him a lot unfortunately as well.
Both the Phoenix story and DoFP hang around to haunt the comics for way too long, instead of coming up with new things it was always about turning back, inward, insular... re-runs and semi re-runs, so many alternate future people coming back from a future shown dozens or even hundreds of issues past. Why did Claremont never let go of those two in particular? It would be like the Kree-Skrull war being mentioned in every other Avengers issue (although there were some moments like that, plus the 12 issue Avengers Forever series was based off it). It all made those two original stories lesser and lesser each time somehow and I would have to go back and make sure they really were as good as I remembered (and they always were). Maybe Proteus came back and I don't know about it though, but if you aren't adding something new it's just treading water, they might as well just fight Arcade or The Absorbing Man for a couple issues. But I know cynically having a phoenix costume on a cover sells copies and that's likely the only real reason. And some of the new stories with Doctor Doom, Dracula and vampires, or a 'dark' demon dimension for Ilyana to come up to Kitty's age (and yet another alternate timeline for the rest) I just didn't care for. The Star-Jammers were at least a bit fun, and the Alien tribute Brood worked better than it might have... but more of a side-trip in space kind of direction that couldn't last.
Sorry to be so long-winded, thanks for the space as always, and for the new 'old' X-Men I remember vividly, and now more vividly! :^)
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 21 April 2020 at 11:08am
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