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Matt Hawes
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26 June 2020 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | 1
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Vinny Valenti wrote:
| ...But if this were released today, I'd think that there'd be nothing but scrutiny... |
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If fairness, it seems EVERYTHING today is met with some degree of scrutiny.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 26 June 2020 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | 2
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How are we supposed to comment on THAT?!?
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6574
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| Posted: 26 June 2020 at 6:40pm | IP Logged | 3
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All these clues in the actual Marvel comics about Phoenix lead more integrally to this story than to what was actually published.
There's something about competing philosophies there -- one of the original co-plotters tended toward "anything can be added for a good story" and another toward "try to remember what made the book work in the first place." There really did come a time when these two trains of thought could not pull together any longer.
And it almost seems like that was the day Phoenix died.
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Steven Queen
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Joined: 28 February 2020
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| Posted: 27 June 2020 at 8:01am | IP Logged | 4
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Well said Mark.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133827
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| Posted: 27 June 2020 at 8:04am | IP Logged | 5
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There's something about competing philosophies there -- one of the original co-plotters tended toward "anything can be added for a good story" and another toward "try to remember what made the book work in the first place." There really did come a time when these two trains of thought could not pull together any longer. •• And the greatest success for the book, at least commercially, came AFTER the second guy LEFT.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 27 June 2020 at 8:08am | IP Logged | 6
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Looking again at the dialog in that Phoenix resurrection panel, I am reminded of how Chris used to script the big, overblown dialog--except when I asked him to. This morning I was looking at the Wolverine and Nightcrawler Wendigo story, and grumbling to myself once again over the "Hey, guys!" dialog Chris gave Snowbird, despite my margin notes indicating a much more lofty speech pattern. (Insult to injury, when ALPHA FLIGHT started to come out, there were fans who wrote in to tell me I was handling Snowbird "wrong".)
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 27 June 2020 at 11:59am | IP Logged | 7
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When he was young his heart was young then too,
and anything that it would tell him that's the that he would do.
-line adapted from Gene MacLellan's Snowbird song.
I thought of Snowbird as being sort of icy like Nico and ancient like Odin, which is all very Nordic, maybe she should've been more Inuit, or of few words/mysterious. I don't know what they did with her later on aside from I take it they killed her... the last time I saw the character was probably 1984-5. Because of the song we all got sick of in the '70s (lyrics, branded on brain like The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald) probably my favorite Canadiana comic reference character.
Off topic, but I like the bi-lingual Gene MacLellan recording that was finally released on CD in the '90s...
The original recording (Youtube)
Phoenix zipping up out of the water and then I guess hovering there, introducing herself, kind of does have the seeds that Jean is talking like another being entirely. That Kree gun on the moon that Jean tried to do herself/Phoenix in with in #137... that could've done a Captain Marvel negabands number and send Jean to the Negative Zone ala Rick Jones earlier (to be rescued by the FF which would be nice), and Phoenix could've been ion-scattered about ala Wonder Man later on. We could think them dead, but eventually after a nice rest of the characters they could find their way back to the pages of Marvel comics! Probably the Phoenix would be found in some new form and just as they are reeling from that Jean shows up as well, one-two punch.
That's if someone wanted to preserve the comics as they came out in 1980, plus had a time machine.
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Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 28 June 2020 at 1:19pm | IP Logged | 8
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This issue has been absolutely incredible - that last page is killer!!
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Richard Palmgren
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Joined: 31 May 2009
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| Posted: 28 June 2020 at 2:32pm | IP Logged | 9
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A quick question if I may:
After seeing Friday's incredible page, I got to thinking:
Taking the various inkers into account, which published appearance of Jean matches YOUR vision of Jean?
(and if I'm lucky enough to get another answer: which appearance of Phoenix matches your vision of Phoenix?)
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Nathan Greno
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Joined: 20 April 2006
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| Posted: 28 June 2020 at 3:37pm | IP Logged | 10
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I’ve been reading old interviews — just came across this...
Claremont on the Jean/Phoenix change (I can get behind what they were trying to do with the female empowerment angle)...
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Michael Genitempo
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Joined: 04 July 2019
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Posts: 428
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| Posted: 28 June 2020 at 5:11pm | IP Logged | 11
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All of these recent posts make me wonder why, if Jean could potentially have been possessed as an explanation for her actions (or was simply a split personality) why that wasn’t good enough for Jim Shooter. I mean we don’t hold mentally handicapped people entirely accountable for their actions (if alternate personality) and possession means it wasn’t even her...
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Frank Baldevarona
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 46
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| Posted: 28 June 2020 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | 12
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So...<he asks sheepily> How do we steer the plot so that Phoenix meets Galactus?
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