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Topic: X-MEN.ELSEWHEN.21--Comments Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Steven Queen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 28 February 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 950
Posted: 09 April 2021 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply
@JB: Would you mind characterizing your releationship with Stan Lee?

How about Jack Kirby?
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 16023
Posted: 09 April 2021 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply
I like the grubbiness of the alley, the brightness of the void from whence they came, Angel's ruffled wings and the askew angle of the 'camera' giving us a real sense of the disorientation they are feeling.

Poor nightcrawler!!!!
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1957
Posted: 09 April 2021 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply
So true. The intensity of that escape and "landing" rivals some of the most dramatic scenes in Next Men. Doesn't get better than that.
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Jean Sterling Ajouissance
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 04 March 2021
Location: United States
Posts: 108
Posted: 09 April 2021 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply
That's "The Byrne Continuum."  He presents the same level of dynamic tension in his handling of these characters regardless of how many years have passed.

Remember the first several issues of XMTHY?  Remember their escape from the Savage Land?  The disintegrating airship?  The tension, the uncertainty?   He can stretch out that angst to last several issues, he can compress it down to two pages, or he can lay it out in a single panel.

Further proof of the Byrne Continuum  ---   throughout THY, he presented Magneto as MAGNETO, the same as he's doing here.  No waffling, no contrived epiphanies that run contrary to established character development.

That was 20 years ago.   Still hasn't missed a step.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7527
Posted: 09 April 2021 at 8:48pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply
Me: As long as that's what the writer wants, sure... ;)

•••

JB: Thank You!

In my time on the job I have grown so weary of the characters being blamed for their mishandling. “Cyclops is a dick!” No, he’s being WRITTEN as a dick and no one seems to want to defend him. Pander to that lowest rung of fandom that rejects authority—especially principled, noble authority.

(Flip side, take a complete scumbag and turn him into a “freedom fighter”. That’s what Stan and Jack intended for the character, after all. Or, at least it’s what Stan was TOLD he intended. )

***

Thank you in return, JB. Too many fans seem to think they are getting monthly dispatches from an alternate Earth, rather than the creative efforts of writers, artists, editors, production folks and more. 

Cyclops (taking a great example) isn't a dick-- he's a fictional character who (IMHO) was badly mishandled for several years because he wasn't "cool" anymore. (I'm probably not the only one who was heartily sick of Wolverine but he was never my favorite X-Man anyway.)

And I agree completely on the misguided "rehabilitation" of Magneto. He was the mutant Hitler (IIRC) and retconning him into a Holocaust survivor and "freedom fighter" badly twisted that character from what I believe Stan and Jack intended. Seems to me they knew who Magneto was.

Thanks again!
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133688
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 5:37am | IP Logged | 6 post reply
In later years, Stan used to say his "models" for Professor X and Magneto were Martin Luther King and Malcolm X.

Sure.

Or maybe he was TOLD that by eager fans who'd bought into Chris' "freedom fighter" reconstruction of Magneto. Certainly not much trace of that in those early X-Men issues.
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Steven Queen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 28 February 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 950
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 5:44am | IP Logged | 7 post reply
Jack gave Magneto "crazy eyes" there. Definitely not a freedom fighter.

Chris should have just invented a new character. Good villains are hard to come by.

I am just now seeing similarities between Kirby's female faces and Andrew Loomis-like 1950's fashion illustrations.  Neat.


Edited by Steven Queen on 10 April 2021 at 5:47am
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133688
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 6:19am | IP Logged | 8 post reply
Chris should have just invented a new character. Good villains are hard to come by.

••

Chris' reworking of Magneto started soon after the FF office let him use Doctor Doom for a post-me issue of UNCANNY. His handling of the character was so off-model it was decided that he would not be allowed access to Doom again--and so he set about (unconsciously?) turning Magneto into his own version of Doom.

Typically, he went too far.

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Eric White
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 October 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1067
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 8:05am | IP Logged | 9 post reply
I am just now seeing similarities between Kirby's female faces and Andrew Loomis-like 1950's fashion illustrations.  Neat.

++++++

I used to think Kirby based all his early 60's females on Patricia Neal. 

I love everything Kirby did but I have a special fondness for how he drew the Scarlet Witch. 
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133688
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 8:23am | IP Logged | 10 post reply
Kirby’s Wanda was both sexy and demure—not an easy combination to pull off.

Later artists, most of whom seemed to be able to render only one body type,* lost the “demure” aspect.

————

* See what happened to my Wonder Girl as another example.

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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133688
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 11 post reply
@JB: Would you mind characterizing your releationship with Stan Lee?

A: Professional

How about Jack Kirby?

A: Met him only twice, very briefly.

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Doug Centers
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 February 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 5647
Posted: 10 April 2021 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply
JB, just a heads up. I see you've been updating Peter's injured leg (which look great) but you missed one from issue #14 page 14, 2nd panel.
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