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Eric Sofer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 27 May 2021 at 10:31am | IP Logged | 1
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Steven, I follow your thought pattern (and I for one like discussing super powers, so it's not dumb or a waste.)
You're right, I think; it IS a one-way trip. One consideration; I believe that magnetic powers disconnecting from Earth's field would be eliminating your velocity; the magnetic field simply would stop tugging you along (and thus the "pop" gone.)
I still want to see Alpha Flight up against Magneto now, more than ever. Some of the X-Men are particularly susceptible to Magneto's powers (Kurt, Pieter, Logan...) The only one who might be challenged that I can see is Guardian; and he might put up a VERY stiff fight!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134107
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| Posted: 27 May 2021 at 11:19am | IP Logged | 2
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One way trip at best...••• Did someone say it wasn’t ? You’re reminding me of Creationists who seize on the evolutionary concept of the eye having built itself slowly, over millennia, and ask “what good is half an eye?” Well, better than no eye at all, right? Being able to achieve instant acceleration of 900 mph (relative to an observer), is better than NOT being able to do so, even if one can only fly west.
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John Northey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 199
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| Posted: 27 May 2021 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 3
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Of course, if we put too much logic and thought into it you get the issue of what instant acceleration to 900 mph would do to a person (I'm thinking instant pulp) but I have learned to go 'comic book logic' and move on. 99% of what we accept is impossible with real world physics. Just be consistent with what we've seen in the past and I'm happy. IE: if you say that won't crush his bones into powder then don't say it will next issue.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134107
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| Posted: 27 May 2021 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 4
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There is no instant acceleration for the individual. S/he actually STOPS moving, as the Earth keeps turning.
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Joe Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6694
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| Posted: 27 May 2021 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | 5
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Sounds like Monday.
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Tony Moretti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 June 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 94
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| Posted: 27 May 2021 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 6
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"There is no instant acceleration for the individual. S/he actually STOPS moving"---------------------
I would propose that instant acceleration or instant deceleration from 900mph would have the same negative effect on the human structure, but perhaps not the mutant structure of someone who can control the iron molecules inside their own body. Comic Logic trumps real physics every time.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 27 May 2021 at 1:00pm | IP Logged | 7
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It falls under “Because I said so!”Guardian’s suit keeps him swaddled safely in the magnetic fields of the Earth. Mostly he just uses them to fly, but there are other applications. As noted, he only appears to stop/accelerate to an outside observer. But there is really no movement at all. Ditto for Magneto.
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Steven Queen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 February 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 955
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| Posted: 27 May 2021 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 8
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In my other life, I do some spacecraft orbit dynamics, that's why I couldn't just leave well enough alone when it appeared that Eric was a bit confused with magnetism vs. gravity vs. inertia. I keep apologizing because I don't want it to ruin a good story or plot mechanism. I am totally down with whatever JB comes up with, and I love reading pulp fiction from the turn of the century (like Edgar Rice Burroughs) even when that gets the language of future-science wrong. I just disconnect that part of my brain and enjoy it.
So PLEASE don't take this as me complaining or trying to derail or influence ELSEWHEN, but (for those interested) here's a bit on how a person moves while hovering above the ground.
INVISO TEXT (Click or highlight to reveal):
1) magnetism has nothing to do with it (accept maybe on the quantum level, but I'm offering the classical/Newtonian physics point of view here)
2) gravity only "bends" a persons trajectory such that he or she moves in a circle, despite (Newton's Law) our natural tendency is to keep moving in a straight-line (in inertial space). Without gravity, a hovering person would "fall" off into outer space (at coriolis-level velocity), tangentially from their point-of-origin above a rotating earth. What that (falsely) appears to be is gravity overcoming "centripetal force". When in truth, the Earth is constantly bending out from under our feet, and gravity is pulling us down to meet it (and then some...except at geostationary altitudes).
3) every person near the surface of the earth has a velocity that essentially matches the point on the earth below them. Components of a person's velocity are all "relative" to a (theoretical) inertial-reference or "at rest" state, and have parts like Earth's orbit around the sun, the surface velocity of the earth due to its rotation, the Milkyway galaxy's rotation, etc. In the absence of a force, that velocity doesn't change (and you move in a straight line in Newtonian space). It's actually friction with the ground that "trims" our lateral velocity (i.e. keeps it zero relative to the Earth's surface), even when we change latitude.
4) the definition of acceleration is a change in velocity (divided by the time it takes to change). So if you suddenly loose your velocity relative to the Earth/At-Rest, you have undergone an acceleration---it's inescapable from the definition.
5) only super-science or magic can instantaneously "negate" something's velocity --- it's a property of matter called "inertia". Science would call that that instantaneous change an infinite acceleration, and the thing that caused it an infinite force (F=ma=m*dv/dt). Recall we are dividing by a delta-time (dt), and that's zero...anything divided by zero is infinity. That wouldn't necessarily hurt, but only so long as every particle in your body experienced exactly the same acceleration (like gravity...and even that has a vertical gradient...especially near a black hole!). Also, JB explicitly said it didn't occur in zero time...just very quick---ergo, it's just a big acceleration/force.
If compelled to rationalize, we might just say Magneto can (safely) accelerate his body using Earth's magnetic field to fly....really fast --- like a particle in an accelerator. The how is "mutant powers", and maybe we leave the Earth's rotation out of it or its influence on trajectory vague.
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Again, this is all dry and unimaginative Physics. Disregard as necessary and ENJOY THE STORY. I know I am, and don't mean to come off as a know-it-all or wet-blanket!
Hail Hydra.
Edited by Steven Queen on 27 May 2021 at 2:07pm
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Jim Petersman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 665
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| Posted: 27 May 2021 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 9
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You know, I was fine with Kurt being an elf-demon that could teleport and disappear in shadows and I was fine with Cyclops having a massive energy force inside his head that projects out of his eyes but doesn't kill him. I was also fine with the malevolent cosmic entity copying Jean's cellular structure and being imprinted with her thought patterns, but damn it, JB, your cape-less Ororo flying and your Magneto "acceleration" is just way beyond what physics will allow me to believe. Worthless hack.
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Steven Queen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 February 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 955
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| Posted: 27 May 2021 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | 10
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Well said Jim. I will resew my proverbial lips shut. :)
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16585
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| Posted: 27 May 2021 at 2:33pm | IP Logged | 11
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"Suspension of disbelief", folks. This is superhero fantasy, not science facts. Just relax and enjoy the ride.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31494
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| Posted: 27 May 2021 at 4:07pm | IP Logged | 12
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Good lord...
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