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Topic: X-MEN.ELSEWHEN 28--Comments Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Philippe Negrin
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 August 2007
Location: France
Posts: 2644
Posted: 26 November 2021 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Is it because you can actually understand what exactly is going on, it's not an unreadable mess within a unbelievably grand undecypherable "event" going on in the background a la Hickman ?
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133704
Posted: 26 November 2021 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I’ve not read any Hickman, so I have no frame of reference.
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ron bailey
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 1097
Posted: 26 November 2021 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

"TANGENT: After finding a “reviewer” complaining that ELSEWHEN is “light” because there are “no subplots”, I found another self-appointed guardian of public taste at the other end of the spectrum, grumbling that X-MEN-THE HIDDEN YEARS was “bloated” because it had—wait for it!—“too many subplots”!"
< id="protanopia"> < id="deuteranopia"> < id="tritanopia">
..................................................

It's an oft stated assertion that you must be doing something right if you're an equal opportunity offender.  
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John Northey
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 09 June 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 199
Posted: 26 November 2021 at 9:44pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I am glad JB is leaving a lot to the imagination (details on how Logan escapes, leaving years empty here and there too).  No need to hold our hands every last blinking step of the way.  Tell us what we need to know and our imaginations can run wild on the in between parts if we want.  I know as a kid I'd do that, and I like writers who respect imagination enough to let it happen today.

As to the 7 year (thought it was 10) since the FF flew... I do like the idea of having a fixed window if characters/etc. are to last forever (minimal aging) with it shifting as time shifts (with non-continuity stuff like Peanuts where what you read last year has minimal effect on the story going forward no fixed point of any kind is needed - everything happens in a 1 year window sorta - screw it, just enjoy the bloody story).  Even if it makes me feel old sometimes.  A 7 year gap means the whole Marvel era from start to Elsewhen fits into my youngest daughters lifetime.  Yikes!  When I was a kid I'd have said 'great'.  Guess now that would mean Ben & Reed fought in the post-9/11 Afghan/Iraq Wars (vs WWII, then Korea, then Vietnam) if them  fighting in a war was still kept as part of their story (meeting Nick Fury, etc.).  
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133704
Posted: 27 November 2021 at 7:29am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

The "Seven Year Rule" was introduced--by Len Wein as I recall--in the hopes of silencing those fans who demanded tight restrictions on parts of the whole process that should be most loosely bound. "How long has it been since the FF went up in that rocket?" they started asking, not too long before I got into the Biz.

The Old Guard knew the most wise approach was simply to ignore the question. The characters were not real, and, after all, the stories were mostly told in the present tense. They all took place in "the present".

But the grumbling continued, and so it was suggested the FF had gone up "seven years ago". And that it would ALWAYS be seven years. Not a REAL seven years, tho. One fanzine writer, in the Seventies, demonstrated his complete failure to grasp the point by saying he could not accept that all the stories were taking place in 1968.

And, of course, there were those who insisted on treating the Rule as a sliding scale. If it was seven years when introduced, a few years later surely it must be eight years, or ten, or more.

The big red flag here, often ignored, was that if someone had been reading comics long enough to notice that time was not passing in anything like a "normal" way, it was up to them to either accept this trope, or to move on to some other hobby.

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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133704
Posted: 27 November 2021 at 8:17am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Follow Up: So far as I know, no one ever took me up on this, but long ago I suggested that someone with time on their hands sit down with the first 100 issues of FANTASTIC FOUR and tote up th actual elapsed time on camera.

Even allowing for "down time" between issues and sometimes panels, I think we'd all be surprised by how little time is shown.

(This, of course, discounts topical references that indicate real time is passing. Xmas issues, for instance, or TV shows, movies, etc.)

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ron bailey
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 1097
Posted: 27 November 2021 at 10:08am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

So much creativity is already possible in this medium that it always surprises me when people over obsess and want to bog down their enjoyment of the story with pointless minutiae of this sort. 
There is a thread elsewhere doing the same with the time elapsed between the eras of the Star Wars trilogies. Is it really the intention that is the spirit of the story we're supposed to be enjoying? < id="protanopia"> < id="deuteranopia"> < id="tritanopia">
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Michael Maguire
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 13 March 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 6
Posted: 27 November 2021 at 3:19pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Ron, I agree.  I know a couple of guys that know more about the Battle of Hoth than the Battle of Normandy.

I don't think any of this stuff was ever meant to be taken so seriously.

I'm sure it can be frustrating to be creative these days, especially if you're conscious of the fanboy factor, which has been turned up to 11 in the era of the Internet.

Since Elsewhen started, I've just been flat out entertained... not inspired to figure out when Pablo will be starting high school, or x-y-z about Sentinels' power supplies or the physics of time travel.

I've had zero disappointment (though Amanda's fate and Nightcrawler's reaction gave me the sads), plenty of surprises, and no "No Prize" material to report.
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ron bailey
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 1097
Posted: 27 November 2021 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Elsewhen holds a unique position in this regard. Usually fan fiction is not conducted by the original creators. One of the reasons I don't usually follow any is because rarely is any true originality on display in these efforts, just "hey, you want more of the same until a sequel comes out, and not done as well?" and so awkwardly retread existing concepts and tropes until the well is more than dry. 
Obviously that isn't the case here for several reasons, from (one of) the original creators providing the story to the energy enthusiasm and skill used to produce it. 
It really is in its own category. < id="protanopia"> < id="deuteranopia"> < id="tritanopia">
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Bill Dowling
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 07 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2179
Posted: 28 November 2021 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Even allowing for "down time" between issues and sometimes panels, I think we'd all be surprised by how little time is shown.

*********

While this is an excellent point (especially with regard to other characters), the bigger issue with the FF is Franklin. It has to be at least nine months prior to Franklin’s birth that they went up in the rocket. 

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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133704
Posted: 28 November 2021 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

More than that, I’d say.

Still, as I’ve noted before, Stan and Jack bundled Franklin off to Whisper Hill and Agatha Harkness’ care* for his safety, contextually, and to eliminate the problem of his age. Other writers brought him back and aged him. I locked him, as best I could, at somewhere around 5. (The 4.5 emblem I sometimes had him sporting was not meant to indicate his age.)

_________

* And f**k you, WANDAVISION!

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Joe Smith
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 29 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6680
Posted: 28 November 2021 at 10:37pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Just finished that series, lol…. cripes….I loved the homages and Olsen, but,
man, that wasn’t the Agatha that scared the bejeezus out of me when I was
8.
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