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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3502
Posted: 21 December 2023 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Here's a question: If a rejected cover is later chosen (as-is, no retouching) for a reprint volume, is the artist paid the rate from the original page, or the current market rate? I would assume that royalties would be in play in both cases pending sales.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133688
Posted: 21 December 2023 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

A cover I did for an issue of a Spider-Man book was rejected by one editor, then used by his successor. Seems it had just been lying in the drawer, rather than being returned to me.

I was paid for the use, but I don’t recall rates had changed, so it cost Marvel no more than had it been used originally.

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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2386
Posted: 22 December 2023 at 12:30am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

We out here in reader-land are having trouble understanding how an editor can commission work and then not pay for it after rejecting it on a whim or other factors (a bicycle ad!) totally outside the artist's power. 
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2386
Posted: 22 December 2023 at 12:33am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Again, I can't say 100% this Neal Adams piece was the original intended cover for BATMAN ODYSSEY #1, but it does portray a scene that was in that issue.  Someone chose to have Batman get shot instead of shooting.


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Jim Muir
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Joined: 26 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1376
Posted: 22 December 2023 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Batman with a gun sits badly with me, but I think that ship
sailed a long time ago.
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Brian Floyd
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Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8674
Posted: 23 December 2023 at 3:11am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Back when they did Batman Year Two in Detective Comics, they did have Batman carrying a gun. But it was the gun that Joe Chill killed his parents with. He intended to kill Chill with it, but the Reaper took him out first, and Batman got rid of the gun.

Batman holding onto that at all never made sense. Him using one even less so.


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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133688
Posted: 23 December 2023 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

…the gun that Joe Chill killed his parents with…

•••

How in hell did Batman lay hold of that??

(DC just can’t help themselves! Everything has to be touching…)

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Brian Floyd
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Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8674
Posted: 23 December 2023 at 8:51pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

It came out in 1987, with art by Tood McFarlane at first, then Alan Davis took over. (Talk about a style clash!) 

Cannot go check, because I gave away most of my comics when planning for a move to another state - that didn't happen - 12 years ago.

But, working purely from memory (and looking up a couple of minor details):

I do not remember how (or if) they explained how Bruce acquired the gun, but at the end of it he tosses the gun in the concrete they laid for the foundation of the Wayne Foundation building. 

Its overall a bad story, in retrospect. You have:

A vigilante called the Reaper, who was active in Gotham at some point before Batman coming out of retirement and killing criminals in cold blood,using hand weapons that are a cross between scythes, spiked maces, and guns. (Due to the design, there's no point in the mace part, other than the visual aspect)

Batman forming a temporary truce with the underworld, who just so happen to send Joe Chill as their representative to work with Batman.

Batman pulling the gun on Chill in an alley after unmasking, putting the gun to Chill's forehead, and the Reaper killing Chill so you never know if Bruce would have actually pulled the trigger.

Bruce actually considering giving up being Batman, proposing to his girlfriend, who accepts, but remaing Batman only because it turns out her father was the Reaper (he commits suicide)....so she becomes nun as penance for what he did. 

To be fair, he never once unholsters the gun around anyone as Batman other than when he is around Joe Chill, and I don't believe it ever showed him so much as shooting targets with it.

The Batman animated movie Mask of the Phantasm is heavily based on it. (And is far superior!)

Oh, and to make it even worse, they later had Joe Chill's son take over as the new Reaper! I avoided reading that like the plague.


Edited by Brian Floyd on 23 December 2023 at 8:55pm
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133688
Posted: 23 December 2023 at 8:54pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Wow. How to ruin a brilliant original story.
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Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8674
Posted: 23 December 2023 at 8:58pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Wow. How to ruin a brilliant original story.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Exactly.

Unfortunately, from what I understand, Rebirth put some form of this story back into continuity, except leaving Chill and the gun out of it.


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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16513
Posted: 24 December 2023 at 3:24am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

That story was adapted with various alerations into the first theatrical animated Batman film (from the Batman 1990s animated series).
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Colin Ian Campbell
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 24 April 2015
Location: England
Posts: 213
Posted: 24 December 2023 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

It came out in 1987, with art by Tood McFarlane at first, then Alan Davis took over. (Talk about a style clash!)
*
Davis drew the first part in Detective Comics #575 then quit because the Mauser he had drawn was altered by Dick Giordano to match the gun David Mazzucchelli drew in Batman #404.
link

Edited by Colin Ian Campbell on 24 December 2023 at 1:16pm
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