Saying "Wolverine" is nothing. Saying "it's a kid with spider powers" is also nothing.

Producing Amazing Fantasy 15 is something. It can be also discussed, and it certainly has, who did what in Amazing Fantasy 15 but at least it's from a position where we're discussing actual words and pictures laid down by artists.

An editor's function isn't to be an artist, or to "come up" with ideas.

Well, Liefeld seems pretty irate.

And since this Thomas credit will apparently debut in DEADPOOL & WOLVERINE I imagine he could possibly have some pull and influence over this.

Let's see how it goes.

  

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I imagine it had/has to be the equivalent of a project manager on any product line: the buck-stops-here frontline of accountability for making sure the product gets delivered on time. The different contributors, writer, penciller, inker, letterer, colorist (ye old days) can all point at each other for blame if something didn't get done on time or was done incorrectly, but ultimately the editor would have to be responsible for the entire team. 

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And regarding blame vs. credit, I doubt anyone was ever in line at a con signing to get an editor's autograph (If they were "only" an editor, or whether auctions were ever had for pages from books that were edited by someone. But, they probably did have health insurance while they were editors :)

It's also worth noting that Dave Cockrum independently created his own Wolverine character in 1972 (for possible use in the Legion of Super-Heroes) and that he said he mentioned/showed his character concept to Roy.  Roy doesn't remember specifically, but acknowledges Dave "may" have done this.  Ultimately it becomes as complex as Spider-Man (where Stan may have gotten the name from Joe Simon via Jack Kirby).  Wolverine is a character where the elaboration is really just as important as the initial concept.  If anyone deserves to be added to the creator list it's Dave Cockrum, both for possibly sparking the initial idea, and for his creation of the maskless image of the character which is more iconic and widely-known than the costume.

Thomas didn't even remember the previous mention of Cockrum's "Wolverine", which must had been fairly recent at the time. Imagine the fidelity of those recollections 40+ years later.

The creators of something are the ones who defined, wrote and illustrated said thing for the first time. Did the work, not threw some words around.

Madness...

A lot of the Marvel credits in that particular time period were fast & loose, overly complicated, or sometimes vague.  You often had a story that was "plotted" by one writer and scripted by another and I just read one where the editor was listed as "co-plotter."  This was the era that brought about the writer/editor credit (of which Roy Thomas was the first to make such a deal, I believe--although Stan effectively did it for years before).  The first issue of HERO FOR HIRE (Luke Cage) contains the unique credit of "With the considerable contributions of Roy Thomas and John Romita," so there's never been any question about Thomas' involvement with Cage, though he was neither the editor (Stan Lee) nor the writer (Archie Goodwin).

It just seems that Roy had his hand in almost everything new that was being developed at that time, so it's completely believable and understandable that Wolverine might have started with him (like 100 other things) and he passed it off to someone else to write.  Rather than jumping to accuse him of "stealing credit," I, as a long-time reader and fan of these stories, creators, and characters, just appreciate getting some insight into how things originated.

It sounds like Brevoort is saying this to reduce editors' self-importance. 

Jordan White is getting some criticism for the decline of the X-titles, with one Youtuber referring to "Jordan D. White and his legion of doofuses". Upper levels seem to agree, since he's hurriedly being moved out in favor of Brevoort. Fans aren't the only ones who can assign blame.

Here's Thomas's interview with Peter Sanderson. He doesn't place much importance on coming up with the name.

QUOTE: THOMAS: The only other thing I suggested to him, over lunch, was that I thought it was time we had a Canadian hero. There was talk about names like Captain Canuck, Cap-tain Canada, things of that sort, and I suggested that since we had a Canadian market and I felt guilty about not having more Canadian characters in the comics, The X-Men should have a character that I suggested be called the Wolverine because that animal inhabits Canada as well as the Northern United States and would be familiar to both. He could be a Canadian and be very fierce. I was thinking of someone much like what evolved, a very fierce character worth his weight in wildcats, that kind of thing, a little like Wildcat or Atom, only with more power.SANDERSON: Cockrum says he had come up with a Wolverine character before that and told you about it. THOMAS: It very well could have been. On the other hand I don't have any conscious memory of his having done that. And of course it doesn't take much brains for either of us to come up with a name like Wolverine anyway. Animal characters are a big thing. Dave may have done that. On the other hand, it's like when I invented the Banshee. I got an angry letter from a kid who said he'd once sent in a letter to me, Stan, or somebody else suggesting a character called the Banshee. And of course I thought it was just ridiculous [laughter] because names like "Wolverine" or "Banshee" are just names. A name like Captain Marvel is a made-up name, maybe, but all the others—Superman, Batman—they're all just grabbed from somewhere.

Edited by Jim Burdo on 03 April 2024 at 10:31am