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Topic: Famous Folk talk Shakespeare Authorship Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6442
Posted: 24 June 2024 at 8:20pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Cory: I lean toward Shaksper being a play-broker who took credit for other peoples work. The Upstart Crow

**

Or the Poet-Ape

Ben Johnson’s poem of this name describes an actor who has come into undeserved credit as an author by brokering the works of others.

It closes with a couplet which advises that learned audiences can tell the difference between this false-author's work like they can tell a fleece and locks of wool, or shreds from the whole piece.

Do any would-be authors of the time have a debatable career as a playwright, but a verified career dealing in wool?

Edited by Mark Haslett on 24 June 2024 at 9:41pm
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Steven Brake
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 01 January 2016
Posts: 659
Posted: 24 June 2024 at 8:49pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Michael Penn wrote: I don't understand why the verb "attest" needed to be used in your new statement.

SB replied: Fair enough. How about:

George Buck, Master Of The Revels, stated in 1607 that King Lear was the work of William Shakespeare.

Michael Penn wrote: What you then further added in your changed statement...

SB replied: It wasn't a changed statement, it was a new one. I posted the original, which you felt to be strong, and proposed a second one, which you're not content with either. 

Here's hoping that third time's the charm. :)

You go on to raise a series of questions, or requests for clarifications. With hope springing eternal...

In 1603, a royal patent is issued confirming the creation of The King's Men. Among the people named are William Shakespeare, Richard Burbage, Henry Condell and John Heminges.

In the same year, George Buck is appointed Master Of The Revels, making him responsible for supervising entertainments presented to the sovereign, and for censoring plays performed in public theatres. 

In 1606, Buck stated that William Shakespeare had confirmed the authorship of George-A-Greene, the Pinner of Wakefield.

In 1607, Buck stated that Shakespeare was the author of King Lear.

In 1616, William Shakespeare dies in Stratford-Upon-Avon. In his will, he leaves small bequests to Burbage, Heminges and Condell.

In 1619, Burbage dies.

In 1623, the First Folio is published, comprised of 36 plays, which Heminges and Condell state to have been the work of William Shakespeare, the man they had known for decades. King Lear is included among them.

Michael Penn wrote: It's truly amazing that this one register entry has survived when so much else from that time has been lost.

SB replied: Are you suggesting that the register entry is a forgery? If so, why, and by whom? 

If it were that case that Will of Stratford wasn't William Shakespeare, wouldn't the people who were trying to maintain the fiction that he was have forged something more substantial, like a letter or a diary entry?

Michael Penn wrote: Do any would be author’s of the time have a debatable career as a playwright, but a verified career dealing in wool?

Michael Penn earlier wrote: I'm not advocating for any alternative authors, or even doubt. As a Stratfordian...

SB replied: Michael, it's apparent that you are an Alternative Authorship theorist. Wouldn't it be better to just be open about it? I don't agree with the position, but I do enjoy the thrust and parry of debating it. :)


Edited by Steven Brake on 24 June 2024 at 8:50pm
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12726
Posted: 24 June 2024 at 9:43pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply


 QUOTE:
Michael Penn wrote: What you then further added in your changed statement...

SB replied: It wasn't a changed statement, it was a new one. I posted the original, which you felt to be strong, and proposed a second one, which you're not content with either.

Your own words: "If I amend this to say..." Anyway, you now have provided a good example of quibbling.

***


 QUOTE:
SB replied: Are you suggesting that the register entry is a forgery? If so, why, and by whom?

I don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about or how you drew this conclusion from anything I said.

***


 QUOTE:
SB replied: Michael, it's apparent that you are an Alternative Authorship theorist. Wouldn't it be better to just be open about it? I don't agree with the position, but I do enjoy the thrust and parry of debating it. :)

There's no point discussing this further since you think I'm a liar.






Edited by Michael Penn on 24 June 2024 at 9:43pm
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6442
Posted: 25 June 2024 at 12:54am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Dedicated Stratfordians really don’t understand how much “doubters” would love it if proof that Stratford Will wrote the works came to light.

They don’t adopt the scholarly distance that allows for any evidence to support any candidate but the one they champion.

So they don’t believe anyone else can either.

Edited by Mark Haslett on 07 October 2024 at 4:46pm
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133375
Posted: 04 October 2024 at 6:21pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Rereading this thread just now I am reminded of the many Byrne Bashers who insist that anyone who disagrees with me is automatically banned from this site.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133375
Posted: 06 October 2024 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Diana Price
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6442
Posted: 07 October 2024 at 4:06pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Diana Price presents enough evidence to make it impossible to be “certain”
that Will Shaksper of Stratford ever wrote anything.

She proves that if he did write anything, there should be primary
source evidence to support that claim, as there is for every other literary
figure of his day.

She makes the great point that discussing who wrote the works has to start
with “de-throning” the popular conception.
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