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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12558
Posted: 03 July 2024 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

There were fans I remember from my time as a reader many decades ago who seemed obsessed with the "super" part of superheroes. But even if "super" draws us in, it's really always been the "heroes" part that holds us to these characters, and you can't be much of a hero if you win easily all the time.

(A "clump" of grumbles even back then in the days of actual letters, pre-internet. What it must've been like for comicbook creators by the mid/late 90s!)



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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132645
Posted: 03 July 2024 at 12:30pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The ability to type and hit ENTER created a new breed of fan.

There were always fans who obviously thought themselves more important to the process than they really were. Mostly these were readers who were not really aware of what that process was—who had no idea that the issues were finished months before they saw them. That their letters of complaint or compliment had zero effect on the next issue.*

Also there were those who saw getting a letter chosen for publication as a form of empowerment, not realizing the writer or editor had chosen that letter as part of his/her own agenda.

Make no mistake, feedback from the fans was important, but nothing like as immediate as some thought. If the creative team decided to act on some fan’s suggestion, it would be months before it would be seen in the books.

Unfortunately, in this internet age where every “letter” gets “printed”, that artificial sense of empowerment has exploded.

Oh, well. At least we no longer have to put up with green ink on yellow paper!!

_______

* One such wrote to Chris and me on X-MEN, actually commending us for following his advice and abandoning the obviously lame plotline of the previous issue.

This is a not uncommon turn with some fans, finding themselves unable to think of a good solution to the latest dilemma and assuming we couldn’t either.

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Michael Casselman
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Joined: 14 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1226
Posted: 03 July 2024 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

 If the creative team decided to act on some fan’s suggestion, it would be months before it would be seen in the books.

Unfortunately, in this internet age where every “letter” gets “printed”, that artificial sense of empowerment has exploded.

_____________________________________

Emphasis in JB's quote mine, because nowadays, even with the immediacy of the internet, that same suggestion would instead take years to come to fruition due to delays delays delays. 

"I've got so many projects I'm juggling right now" "My commissions are piling up" "I have a script Hollywood is looking at" "I'll see you on the convention circuit" "we'll have to coordinate it around the next company event series" etc.

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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6277
Posted: 03 July 2024 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I’ll confess to being oblivious to how the process worked, but I never
dreamed anyone at Marvel or DC needed my advice. I remember being
mystified and irritated by a friend who told me long in advance that Elektra
was going to die in the next issue of Daredevil and that it was “obvious.” He
was right. I don’t know how he did it. I bet he wrote some letters of advice
in his day.

The most “insight” I managed to glean came when JB went over to FF from
X-Men and I slowly realized EVERYTHING that I really liked about X-Men
went there too. Figuring that out was kind of a big deal.

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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3225
Posted: 03 July 2024 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I’m an incorrigible critiquer. The feedback slip from one professor read “Dave is an excellent critic who does not take criticism well”, which is so spot-on that I want it as my epitaph. But it never never ever ever even occurred to me that I as a reader should try to offer corrective suggestions to the creators of the books I read.  My only form of criticism was to stop buying the book.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132645
Posted: 03 July 2024 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Every once in a while some story I read as a kid contradicted some other story I read. And you know what? I assumed I was wrong!!

One of Stan’s biggest mistakes was creating the No-Prize. Not only did it very quickly become misunderstood, it encouraged readers to seek flaws!

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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3225
Posted: 03 July 2024 at 8:13pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Care and feeding of the fanbase is such a tricky thing. How much do you try to build that community and make them feel included, and how much do you try to construct some visible boundaries so that the artists can create and the fans don't feel - for lack of a better word - entitled? 

The best example of how to do it, I think, was Gene Roddenberry, and all credit to Paramount for recognizing the value of it and carrying that forward. The Trek fanbase is just about the least toxic one out there. Stan and his Mighty Marvel vibe comes second, I think.
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Peter Hicks
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1913
Posted: 03 July 2024 at 9:34pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

JB - Did you ever work on a book where the fan letters or emails were so united on one point that the creators actually changed the book as requested?

I recall Stan’s Soapbox around 1970 announcing stories going forward would be self contained to one issue if possible.  A few issues later, he announced they were reversing that policy because of the deluge of mail from fans who loved the extended plot lines.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132645
Posted: 03 July 2024 at 9:43pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Stan famously said “Never give the fans what they THINK they want,” but he was a master at making fans think they wanted what he gave them!
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2323
Posted: 04 July 2024 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I had the opposite experience.  I had two letters printed as a kid.  One was to ALL-STAR SQUADRON where Roy Thomas was busy reintroducing (and sometimes revising) Golden Age heroes and I suggested he bring back Lady Luck (I thought she was a Quality Comics character) and give her luck-affecting powers.  He answered back that he had intended something along those lines but now that I had suggested it he had to abandon the idea.

My other letter was to MARVEL TWO-IN-ONE after Mark Gruenwald and Ralph Macchio had given the young Vance Astro his mental powers long before he was to go on his thousand-year journey that led to his developing mental powers and the founding of the Guardians of the Galaxy.  I argued that they had created a paradox that should be undone--because I liked the Guardians of the Galaxy and their future seemed to be the "true" Marvel future.  I forgot exactly what they said, but suffice it to say they made the strong argument that I was wrong.

My impression was that not only did my ideas not affect the big companies, but that they really didn't want to hear them.
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