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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2198
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| Posted: 02 July 2024 at 2:08am | IP Logged | 1
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Recently, Rob Liefeld offered some tips on how to write and draw successful comics and he talked about the "seven eight seven" rule. I was wondering is this really a rule and is Liefeld right? Here's a direct quote from Liefeld and I will post a link to the article.
"Here's the deal.. there is a tried and true when you get down to doing a monthly comic… Seven eight seven … what does that mean? Open your comics with seven pages of your character using their power introducing themselves to the reader, doing their cool whatever it is that they do. Then the middle eight pages, is when they go home, they have their school life, work life, getting screwed over, whatever, sublots, character action. girlfriend, wife, that's your middle eight… the last seven pages is the conflict, there's action, more using of the powers and the villain making his move to the end of the cliffhanger so they come back next month. That is my tip to you my friend, seven eight seven."
https://bleedingcool.com/comics/gerry-duggan-chip-zdarsky-pa y-rob-liefeld-to-teach-jonathan-hickman/
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132645
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| Posted: 02 July 2024 at 4:52am | IP Logged | 2
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First I’ve heard of this “rule”.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6277
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| Posted: 02 July 2024 at 5:26am | IP Logged | 3
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One thing for sure: When you go to Rob Liefeld for advice, you get Rob Liefeld's advice.
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Craig Earl
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1289
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| Posted: 02 July 2024 at 5:43am | IP Logged | 4
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Surely, having a rule to stick by like 'seven eight seven' doesn't allow for an offbeat or original approach...
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2323
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| Posted: 02 July 2024 at 7:20am | IP Logged | 5
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This seems to be a variation on the "three-act play." But it doesn't sound right. And, of course, everything's "written for the trade" these days, so it's more likely that the first issue will be the set-up, the last issue will be the climax, and however-many-issues will be the middle act.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132645
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| Posted: 02 July 2024 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 6
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I’m reminded of a complaint I had when working with Chris, in the days before I took a stronger hand in the plotting. Often he’d concoct “three part” stories that were really two parts, with a vaguely unconnected part in between.
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15881
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| Posted: 02 July 2024 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 7
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I think the full title of the rule is: 787 with no feet showing.
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3225
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| Posted: 02 July 2024 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 8
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I wonder if he just means that every comic should contain a scene set in Puerto Rico?
In all seriousness, this doesn't sound like bad advice for beginners at all - sometimes just having a structure in mind - even an arbitrary one - is a good way to work while you're learning the process.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 02 July 2024 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | 9
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When Shooter arrived at Marvel (as Archie Goodwin’s assistant), he called me up to introduce himself. Two things came out of that conversation: my eventual assignment to MARVEL TEAM-UP, and Shooter’s declaration that when it came to storytelling there were NO RULES, as long as the story was a good one. This stands as profound contrast to the Shooter who was eventually ousted from Marvel, whose whole approach was to finds rules for EVERYTHING. (When Roger Stern and I pitched a series we called BOOGIEMAN, before asking us anything at all about what we had in mind, Shooter declared “You’ll have to spell it correctly.” Right out of the gate he found a RULE.) Rules are, indeed, a good way for a newbie to build her/himself a foundation. A foundation from which many strange twists and turns can be built. But Liefeld’s 7-8-7 doesn’t sound like a learning tool. It sounds like something he thinks should be done EVERY TIME.
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Josh Goldberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2067
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| Posted: 02 July 2024 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | 10
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I was flipping through JB's FF Visonaries last night. JB covered all these bases in his work, but without such a rigid rule regarding structure.While re-reading JB's FF Annual #17, I was surprised to see that not one member of the fantastic Four even appeared in the first 17 pages of this 38-page story.
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Peter Hicks
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 1913
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| Posted: 02 July 2024 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | 11
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Alan Moore said after his run on Swamp Thing that every story was a 3 act play. In Act One, the villain starts his evil plan rolling, and Swamp Thing knows nothing about it. In Act Two, they meet, they fight, and Swamp Thing loses. In Act Three, Swamp Thing wins. Rinse and repeat. The plot pacing looks a little less obvious by inserting the occasional “Meanwhile…” page to hint at an upcoming villain.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132645
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| Posted: 03 July 2024 at 11:41am | IP Logged | 12
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Flashing back again to those days with Claremont, especially on X-MEN, there was something he and I both found frustrating. We would often use the three part model cited by Moore, with the first part being set up as a subplot. Then, in the first part proper, our heroes would get trounced by the bad guy(s), to rally and save the day next issue. The first half would invariably lead to a clump of letters grumbling “the X-Men must not be as tough as I thought,” followed a month later with “the X-Men beat [whoever]! Guess he’s not so hot after all!”
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