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John Wickett
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Joined: 12 July 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 862
Posted: 26 August 2024 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

"Why is it such a hard decision?"

I didn't say it was.  I'm just taking my time.  Harris hasn't rolled out her policy agenda yet.  I want to see what it is.   

"Getting into the details of what’s wrong with the alternative to the racist
rapist is to invite the idea of voting for the racist rapist."

Ignoring the details is stupid.  And I haven't exaggerated anything.
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Michael Penn
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Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12704
Posted: 26 August 2024 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

The rules that Trump agreed to featured standing at a podium, so likely this wouldn't be changed, especially if reports are accurate that Harris wants the candidates to be seated.

Interestingly, the Harris campaign seems to be insisting that the mics not be muted because they believe Trump's inability to be heard during the Biden debate effectively tamed him and led him appearing more in self-control and thus more presidential, and they would much rather have Trump verbally out of control.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security

Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35929
Posted: 26 August 2024 at 3:33pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

The "yeah, but" crowd bugs the shit out of me.  Give them any excuse, major or minor, and they'll inevitably use that as a defense to vote for a sexual predator.  Ridiculous.   
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6417
Posted: 26 August 2024 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

JW: "Getting into the details of what’s wrong with the alternative to the racist
rapist is to invite the idea of voting for the racist rapist."

Ignoring the details is stupid. And I haven't exaggerated anything.

***

There is a significant difference between "not ignoring" a detail and decontextualizing it and misrepresenting it.

You claim Harris has an ongoing interest in abolishing private healthcare instead of acknowledging the truth that she floated the idea in a number of long-ago campaign appearances. Has she not been in office for 4 years? Is there no possible way to fact-check her current interest in "abolishing" private healthcare? She isn't running on this and that is obvious and clear to everyone.

Yet you jumped in to say "Ben is right" about it when Ben's context was that he wouldn't vote for Harris because he says he knows it's what she wants-- you know, having lived in California so long that context and truth no longer matter to him.

One can't help wondering why it's this detail that is so important to "not ignore" instead of things like whether or not a candidate plans to pardon those who attacked our capital to beat and murder cops, or to eliminate NATO or to accept bribes from Egypt and Saudi Arabia and China at every possible opportunity? Those are actual proven ongoing interests of one of the two candidates, but you want to make sure we don't forget Harris once advocated for an undesirable (to you) form of national healthcare.

Forgive me for thinking you exaggerated.
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Jason Czeskleba
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Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4620
Posted: 26 August 2024 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

 John Wickett wrote:
I didn't say it was.  I'm just taking my time.  Harris hasn't rolled out her policy agenda yet.  I want to see what it is.
At this point, I'm puzzled that anyone who isn't a full-on truth-denying MAGA follower would say that their voting decision comes down to policy details.  Trump is impulsive, petulant, and vindictive... he's incapable of acknowledging error and often incapable of acknowledging facts that contradict what he wishes to be the truth.  The latter traits seem to rise to the level of pathology, meaning it's not just that he has a hard time accepting facts he doesn't like, but rather he actually convinces himself they are not true.  He also has a difficult time retaining and processing facts, and he's easily manipulated by flattery.  In short, he's someone who's fundamentally unfit for office, and particularly unfit to be in charge of military decisions. It's deeply frightening to contemplate him being in charge of nuclear codes.  The fact that a guy who isn't a pilot managed to sit in the pilot's chair and not crash the plane for four years doesn't somehow mean it's a safe idea to give him another shot at trying to fly the plane.

At this point, policy is irrelevant.  If Trump and Harris's policy positions were inverted I would still vote for Harris, because the most important thing is to have someone who is intellectually, emotionally, and psychiatrically competent in that position.

 
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Jason Czeskleba
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Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4620
Posted: 26 August 2024 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

 Michael Penn wrote:
Interestingly, the Harris campaign seems to be insisting that the mics not be muted because they believe Trump's inability to be heard during the Biden debate effectively tamed him and led him appearing more in self-control and thus more presidential, and they would much rather have Trump verbally out of control.
I think the Harris campaign is making a big mistake if they successfully push to have mics unmuted.  The more chaotic the situation, the more that works to Trump's advantage.  Allowing Trump to interrupt and talk over her will make him look strong and domineering.  And forcing Harris to try to talk over him will make her look shrewish to some people (double standard I know, but it's true).  I don't think her "Mr. Vice President, I am speaking" bit in the 2020 debates (when Pence was interrupting her) came off particularly well for her.  She needs to be able to calmly and effectively point out when Trump is lying and spouting BS, and that will be much harder to do if he is able to interrupt her and talk over her.
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Dave Kopperman
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Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3348
Posted: 26 August 2024 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

 JW wrote:
I'm just taking my time.  Harris hasn't rolled out her policy agenda yet.  I want to see what it is.

 JC wrote:
At this point, I'm puzzled that anyone who isn't a full-on truth-denying MAGA follower would say that their voting decision comes down to policy details. Trump is impulsive, petulant, and vindictive... he's incapable of acknowledging error and often incapable of acknowledging facts...

On top of that, he ran in 2016 on overturning the ACA without ever once saying what the plan was to replace it - and then was unsuccessful in overturning it for four full years without ever saying what the replacement would be.  So it's empty logic to wait for Harris to outline an explicit health care plan before deciding how to cast your vote, as you'd never know what Trump's alternative is.


Edited by Dave Kopperman on 26 August 2024 at 6:29pm
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James Johnson
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Joined: 16 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 2155
Posted: 26 August 2024 at 8:22pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

The only plans that Trump has for his administration is payback for those that have "wronged" him, put money in his coffers, and fuck over the country.

MAGAts and all others.

Anything else is bullshit.
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Dave Kopperman
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Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3348
Posted: 26 August 2024 at 8:25pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

I'd take him seriously on the stated desire to exit from NATO, remove any and all environmental protections on energy companies, and deporting at least a million people.
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James Johnson
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Joined: 16 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 2155
Posted: 26 August 2024 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Also,

Anytime that you hear someone from the Trump campaign team say,
"See You Next Tuesday", to Harris' team:

It's code for a derogatory term directed at Kamala.






Edited by James Johnson on 26 August 2024 at 10:55pm
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James Johnson
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Joined: 16 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 2155
Posted: 26 August 2024 at 8:31pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

I'd take him seriously on the stated desire to exit from NATO, remove any and all environmental protections on energy companies, and deporting at least a million people.

Hence the, "...fuck over the country"......
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Kevin Brown
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Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 8941
Posted: 26 August 2024 at 9:34pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Assuming the debates actually happen, d’you suppose Trumf will try to stalk Harris around the stage like he did Clinton?

*****************

At his own peril....
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