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Steven Myers
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Joined: 10 June 2004
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Posted: 03 September 2024 at 3:35pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Limbaugh was not the beginning of subjective reality, but he certainly exasperated it. He told his listeners that only he was telling them the truth, and not to listen to anyone else. Of course, he wasn't telling the truth, but the followers never cared.

Now we have the Trump cult. Which is not the majority of Republicans, but is enough that they can't win without them.

Are the Democrats as bad? I think they lack leadership and clear objectives, but they seem more truth-based to me. usually...
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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 03 September 2024 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

There's certainly a case to be made that the far right wouldn't have such cachet within the current GOP without Limbaugh and the rise of other partisan media sources. But based on personal experience, I think it wasn't a case of right wing media creating a voting bloc as much as it was tapping into an existing bedrock of white dude grievance long before it was even a thing.  

My college friend and roommate (ca. 1991) - at a very liberal art school - was an ardent follower of Limbaugh, and would tune the radio in daily, so I got a pretty in-depth familiarity with the program.  My own take on it was that I couldn't believe anyone would take it seriously, because he (Limbaugh) was so clearly just spewing bullshit, and hateful bullshit at that.  But my friend came from a somewhat conservative family, and would parrot Limbaugh "ideas" back in conversation, my favorite of which being the time he told our mutual female friend to her face that women didn't have the emotional temperament or experience to serve in the Senate.

And yes, my friend is also a conspiracy theorist, with all of the usual suspects: moon landing, climate science, 9/11, Sandy Hook, etc.  I think if you're wired that way, you're gonna go that way regardless of the availability of media sources to give you stuff to rail against.  I guess it's just easier to have bullshit spoon-fed to you than to have to make up your own bullshit?

Curiously, I always got the feeling from him that it was partly an act to get a rise out of people.  Lord knows, it worked on me plenty of times.


Edited by Dave Kopperman on 03 September 2024 at 8:33pm
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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 03 September 2024 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Also, getting back on topic: I thought Harris's CNN interview was strong, if a little frustrating.  The former because both Harris and Walz have charisma and give good TV, which is very useful in this moment, and because when areas of substance were discussed there was a lot of "there" there.  Frustrating in that way too much time was given over to retreads of topics like fracking - not sure if the point was to 'prove' that Harris flipped positions on it (yes. so?) - and also because Harris was surprisingly vague on the 'day one' response.  I'm wondering if she doesn't want to get caught in that 'trap' of being perceived as too much of a technocrat/policy wonk persona that the media constructs around smart female politicians?

My own personal area of disagreement with her is in continuing to give Netanyahu's government carte blanche to press the war in Gaza on their own terms. Not like she has a ton of options, and I'd assume that she's betting that she'll bring back enough of the Biden bloc - particularly younger voters of color - to offset the resultant loss of Arab/Muslim voters in Michigan.  But it also tracks with her general rightward messaging tack from Biden on areas like security and defense.


Edited by Dave Kopperman on 03 September 2024 at 4:52pm
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Peter Martin
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Posted: 03 September 2024 at 5:05pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply


 QUOTE:
Limbaugh was not the beginning of subjective reality, but he certainly exasperated it.

I remember subjective reality complaining how irritated it was by him.
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Steven Myers
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Posted: 03 September 2024 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

QUOTE:
Limbaugh was not the beginning of subjective reality, but he certainly exasperated it.

I remember subjective reality complaining how irritated it was by him.

-------------------------------------

Spell-checker failed me!

Exacerbate vs. Exasperate

Exacerbate is frequently confused with exasperate, and with good reason. Not only do these words resemble one another in spelling and pronunciation, they also at one time held exceedingly similar meanings. Exasperate is today most commonly used as a synonym of annoy, but for several hundred years it also had the meanings “to make more grievous” and “to make harsh or harsher.” Exacerbate is now the more common choice of these two words when one seeks to indicate that something is becoming increasingly bitter, violent, or unpleasant. It comes in part from the Latin word acer, meaning “sharp,” whereas exasperate is from asper, the Latin word for “rough.”

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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 04 September 2024 at 12:15am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

 David Kopperman wrote:
My own personal area of disagreement with her is in continuing to give Netanyahu's government carte blanche to press the war in Gaza on their own terms.
As you noted, there aren't a ton of options there... she's trying to thread the needle.  If she became more critical of Netanyahu and/or started floating the idea of pressuring him to negotiate via cutting off weapon supplies, she'd be branded weak and anti-Semitic and run the very real risk of pushing pro-Yahu voters toward Trump.  I imagine she's hoping that enough of the "uncommitted" voters in swing states will be pragmatic and realize that she is the best option they have for a cease fire, and that she can't do anything if she doesn't get elected first.  Obviously that strategy is a risk, because a significant amount of people are determined NOT to vote pragmatically and will determinedly cut off their own nose to spite their face.  But of the two options available to her, it seems the more sensible choice.     


Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 04 September 2024 at 12:16am
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 04 September 2024 at 1:19am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I have no problem with Trump and Harris not doing/saying anything about Netanyahu.

What I will have a problem with is Israel ends up in a full on war and the U.S. ends up getting involved militarily. We do not need to put out soldiers at risk over a situation that is entirely Israel's own fault. 


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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 04 September 2024 at 2:34am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Gotta disagree with you on that one, Brian; not the ‘US getting involved’ bit, but the ‘entirely Israel’s own fault’ bit. It’s the Middle East.  Everyone is culpable, and Hamas sucks an equal amount of ass. I can’t imagine two groups less inclined or capable of creating a lasting peace, and there are no regional or international partners who have ever helped the cause of peace there more than the U.S., even if it’s basically by default.

But always remember: Hamas is not the Palestinians, and Bibi’s coalition du jour is not the Israelis.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 04 September 2024 at 2:02pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

What I meant about it being Israel's own fault is their lying to the Palestianians. They said there would be no Jewish settlements in the West Bank, and it didn't take them long to break that promise. And they keep electing hardliners like Netanyahu, who do nothing to ease their situation.

Yes, Hamas is ass, but so is Netanyahu, is a bull-headed crook. And if Israel gets into a full on war because of his stubborness, then that's their problem.

Sometimes I think Israel would be better off if Netanyahu had been assassinated instead of Rabin.
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Dave Kopperman
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Posted: 04 September 2024 at 4:06pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

This would be a depressing back and forth for everyone involved, so my last post on the subject is my last.  But you do know that Israel is a parliamentary system, so the PM isn't elected, but appointed?  Right?
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Jason Czeskleba
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Posted: 04 September 2024 at 6:41pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Today's news pretty much removes any doubt that Netanyahu is making decisions about Gaza solely based on what benefits him politically.
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Brian Floyd
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Posted: 04 September 2024 at 10:06pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

But you do know that Israel is a parliamentary system, so the PM isn't elected, but appointed?  Right?

+++++++++++++++++++++
Yes. Which is why I said nothing about him being elected. Its the hardliners, period, who are part of the problem. And Netanyahu falls into that group. 

And Jason, the problem with politics in general is that too many politicians do what benefits them politically instead of what is actually good for everyone. Includng their own constituents. Yet they keep getting elected over and over again.
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