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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135402
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| Posted: 20 August 2024 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | 1
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Nope.
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Greg McPhee
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5157
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| Posted: 20 August 2024 at 9:05pm | IP Logged | 2
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The 'Cary Bates' Superman was in dire need of an overhaul('page 3, Steve Lombard routine; page 4, Clark runs away, Lana says 'Luv', and Josh Coyle says 'Ohhh, my ulcer!'; page 5 ALIENS!...) , and JB delivered!
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Prior to the 1986 reboot, I really enjoyed what Marv Wolfman and Gil Kane were trying to do in Action Comics from 1982 - 1984 which was a reset and change to the style of stories and characters to bring the books in to the 80s.
The downside was that Cary Bates was still writing the series as he always had ( and that's not to diminish the great work Bates had done ), but by that point the Superman books needed a jolt in the arm, and we got it in 1986.
The other thing was how people like Stern, Ordway and Jurgens kept the momentum going for a number of years after. I'd say up until Action 700 the Superman books really were top quality. The quality after Action 700 was still there but things dropped a bit after that slightly.
Edited by Greg McPhee on 20 August 2024 at 9:06pm
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2525
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| Posted: 20 August 2024 at 10:19pm | IP Logged | 3
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I guess I'm in the minority, but I really loved the old Cary Bates/Elliot S. Maggin/Curt Swan era--and I still do! (Whenever I can find some reader copies in a discount box, since it looks like DC will never reprint that era.) I loved all the little variations on the Clark/Steve prank rivalry, Clark cooking dinner for a warming up Lois, Josh's ulcers because Clark always showed up at the last second, etc. Sure, Mr. Swan was not the best to draw intimidating aliens every other issue, but his work on the Clark Kent half of the comic remains unmatched to this day.
What people don't realize is that 60's & 70's DC was much like an episodic TV show, and it was comforting (to 9-12 year-old me) to hit all the usual "beats" and give each character/"actor" (even Josh, Perry, Morgan Edge, Steve Lombard) their minute or two of "screen time." (Check out the initial run of TEEN TITANS. You could practically cast "this episode's guest star" and "go on location" to the next town the team visited to solve "this week's" problem. Or BATMAN with his monthly mystery/riddle to solve.)
Marvel was doing movies, or at least big budget streaming. I would hope there'd be room for both approaches, but, after CRISIS at least, DC wanted to do movies too. But I appreciate JB's restraint in doing a lot of single-issue SUPERMAN stories. He could do "big screen" epics, but he could also do smaller stories.
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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4059
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| Posted: 20 August 2024 at 10:23pm | IP Logged | 4
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Stray World’s Finest issues featuring the super sons and a handful of other
Superman issues picked up during childhood were fun, until….. I got ahold
of some Marvel comics and I was immediately smitten. Prior to John’s Man
of Steel, the only time that I remember being into the character were some
very early DC Comics Presents books, because the art really resonated with
me, feeling almost like Marvel stuff. Only years later, did I realize that art
was done by JLGL
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Brian ONeill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 July 2024
Posts: 94
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| Posted: 21 August 2024 at 12:05am | IP Logged | 5
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JLGL seemed like he was on the path to be, if not 'Curt Swan's successor', then at least 'the guy who draws whatever's left after Curt's assignments'.Unfortunately, he was too good, and got promoted to the production department! He produced perhaps the best-known publisher's style guides ever created, in 1982, but was missed on the regular titles.
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Brian ONeill
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 July 2024
Posts: 94
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| Posted: 21 August 2024 at 12:18am | IP Logged | 6
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Eric Jansen:******* What people don't realize is that 60's & 70's DC was much like an episodic TV show, and it was comforting (to 9-12 year-old me) to hit all the usual "beats" and give each character/"actor" (even Josh, Perry, Morgan Edge, Steve Lombard) their minute or two of "screen time." (Check out the initial run of TEEN TITANS. You could practically cast "this episode's guest star" and "go on location" to the next town the team visited to solve "this week's" problem. Or BATMAN with his monthly mystery/riddle to solve.)
***** The Bates-Maggin formula did have more highs than lows in the 70s-although I felt that Marty Pasko's late-70s run on SUPERMAN was a step above much of Bates's concurrent work on ACTION. Pasko preferred deeper characterization, with more action, and, unlike Bates, he'd work each character's 'bit' in at a point that made sense to the story... or he'd give them something else to do. Bates, OTOH, often had Superman give up pursuing villains so Clark could get back to work...and sometimes, that would be where the Lombard 'practical joke of the month' would go...just long enough before Superman would get back to the story. The 'Reggie Mantle' stuff rarely added to the story. ******* Marvel was doing movies, or at least big budget streaming. I would hope there'd be room for both approaches, but, after CRISIS at least, DC wanted to do movies too. But I appreciate JB's restraint in doing a lot of single-issue SUPERMAN stories. He could do "big screen" epics, but he could also do smaller stories. ****** And they never felt like 'filler'. Bates excelled at longer stories,and usually had one solid 3-or-4-parter a year. The single-issue stuff often felt like a letdown.
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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 4175
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| Posted: 21 August 2024 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 7
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Maybe I was young and naive, but though I understood that MAN OF STEEL was a reboot, I believed I was reading the same Superman as I always had. I thought it was a way of tidying things up, the character of Superman remained easily recognisable.
It remains today my favourite period of Superman comics.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135402
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| Posted: 21 August 2024 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 8
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DC was publishing WHO’S WHO at the same time I was working on Superman, and one of the lesser battles I found myself engaged in was stopping them listing my version as “Superman III”. Precisely because I wanted readers to accept that “my” Superman was the same character who’d first been published in 1938. In later years I realized that was a mistake. If I had allowed my version to be labeled as “Superman III” it would have silenced complaints from most of the more anal fanboys.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8270
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| Posted: 21 August 2024 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | 9
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I loved the concept of Superman, enjoyed Chris
Reeves' version (although there was much I
didn't like about the film itself), but your
version was the first time I read him on a
regular basis.
So much was right about him. When I decided to
make the jump to digital comics, the final
decision was because I looked on the
comoxology website and they had a sale where
all nine volumes of your Superman were
available at £2.99 each.
I could read them again!
And that was how important that work was to
me. The first digital comics I bought were
your Superman.
But I do feel for you with all the background
games that went on. If people only listened to
these reasons, I can't see anyone believing a
bad Byrne story again.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135402
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| Posted: 21 August 2024 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 10
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I am more sinned against than sinning!
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Ben Stamer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2023
Location: United States
Posts: 54
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| Posted: 24 August 2024 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 11
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JB Superman is the gold standard.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135402
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| Posted: 24 August 2024 at 4:08pm | IP Logged | 12
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Just as long as it’s not gold kryptonite.
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