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Rick Whiting
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 22 April 2004
Posts: 2213
Posted: 01 September 2024 at 3:30pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

This rule should also include establishing a character's sexuality from the start when you create a character for Marvel and DC. If not, you will shave stuff like retconning the sexuality of characters like Iceman, Psylocke, Karma, Electro, Deadpool, Rictor, Shatterstar, and now Kitty Pryde.

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/scoop-marvel-to-make-kitty-p ryde-canonically-bisexual-this-week/                             
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133274
Posted: 01 September 2024 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Damage Control is a bit like the episode of Star Trek TNG where they devote a whole episode to explaining the reason behind so many aliens races being humanoid. No explanation is needed for a conceit of the genre. Bleuggrh.

•••

Continuing to watch DISCOVERY with a friend who’s a fan, I just learned the fifth and final season begins with a reference to that TNG nonsense.

sigh

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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4879
Posted: 01 September 2024 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Rick - I don't know if that's really practical unless you're talking aboiut a "character bible" defining the character for writers and artists.

There are instances of writers ignoring years of precident and making characters gay (Iceman and the Rawhide Kid for instance) and some people will explain it as a mid-life "awakening" - which, if set up well, is believable.  But too often we don't see the set-up.  An example being Hercules, who had always been shown as preferring women (and to excess), but it seemed a little late in the game to shoehorn a relationship with a male character.  (Although if he were introduced as a new character now bisexuality would certainly be believable).

I don't have a problem with a wide range of character being portrayed.  I think it's better to do it with a character like Moondragon, who is pretty much a blank slate that it is Bobby Drake, who has been shown having interest exlusively in females (and yes, I do realize there are people who grow up denying their sexuality, but we saw no inclination of that with Iceman, we saw interest in Zelda Kurtzberg, Polaris, Darkstar and Opal Tanaka).  Again, with a proper set-up it would have much more believable.


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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133274
Posted: 01 September 2024 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I have no problem with characters of all and any stripe (excepting pedophiles), but I prefer them to be introduced as NEW characters.

I’ve created a few of those myself!

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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4879
Posted: 01 September 2024 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I don't think think they have much confidence in 100% new characters, judging by how many are derivative now.  Jane Foster with the powers of Thor!  Gwen Stacy with spider-powers!  Two Captain Americas!  Two Spider-Mans!  A second Black Widow!  Thunderbolt Ross as Red Hulk!  Elektra as Daredevil!  A young, female Wolverine!  A young, female Hawkeye!  A young, female Iron Man knockoff!  A second Werewolf by Night!  Another Ghost Rider, but this one drives a car!  Replacements for Nighthawk, Giant-Man, Goliath, Nova...... ad nauseum....

It makes me wonder how any long-time readers can stand to read the new stuff.

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Rich Johnston
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 04 February 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 33
Posted: 01 September 2024 at 11:42pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Hercules was portrayed as being partial to men as well… just happened to be long before Marvel got hold of him. Many, including Jason, Adonis, and Iolaus.
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Jim Burdo
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 April 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 377
Posted: 02 September 2024 at 4:46am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Iolaus was his nephew. It doesn't happen in the actual myths, but suggested by Roman commentators from what I've heard.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14852
Posted: 02 September 2024 at 5:11am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

This rule should also include establishing a character's sexuality from the start when you create a character for Marvel and DC. If not, you will shave stuff like retconning the sexuality of characters like Iceman, Psylocke, Karma, Electro, Deadpool, Rictor, Shatterstar, and now Kitty Pryde.

———

I was going to comment that X-TREME X-MEN came out 23 years ago and that the reintroduction of Sage/Tessa made me realize that Chris Claremont likes to write all his women as bisexual genius ninjas. Then I realized we already had this discussion four years ago. 

Complete with Alan Davis acknowledging that he illustrated Sat-Yr-9 (disguised as Courtney Ross) attempting to corrupt Kitty as a lesbian affair.


As an adult, I find it disturbing that Kitty was supposed to be 15/16 in EXCALIBUR, but was in relationships with adults.

Anyway, I find the idea of “changing orientations” only problematic if you view orientation as a binary or trinary or whatever state. If you think of sexuality existing on a spectrum, as many younger generations do, it’s less of an issue. Labels exist for representation and advocacy, not as a strictly defined category. 

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Rich Johnston
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 04 February 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 33
Posted: 02 September 2024 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Those Greeks, those Romans...
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Jim Burdo
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 April 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 377
Posted: 03 September 2024 at 7:38am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

As for Alan Davis, that was his interpretation of Claremont's plot. Claremont was doing his theme of the bad guy erasing the hero's individuality and turning them into a clone. Kitty and Sat-yr-9 don't go dancing together, and look similar driving off at the end. Sat-yr-9 isn't a lesbian and is obsessed with Brian Braddock.
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Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8570
Posted: 03 September 2024 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Ric k Whiting brought up characters' sexuality.

I believe its absolutely stupid that DC decided to make the original Green Lantern, Alan Scott, gay. A character who has been around since the 1940's. I wonder if they did so because DC made an alternate universe version of him gay and the media mistakenly reported that it was the original?

I'm surprised some writer hasn't made Wonder Woman bi.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133274
Posted: 03 September 2024 at 4:52pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Oh, trust me, that is taken as given. “An island of nothing but women? Of course they’re all gay/bi!”

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