Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum MOBILE
Byrne Robotics | The John Byrne Forum
Topic: Kryptonian Naming Tradition Post Reply | Post New Topic
Author
Message
John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133711
Posted: 11 December 2024 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

This is something I have grumbled about before.

When I started reading Superman comics, circa 1957, his biological parents were named Jor-El and Lara. Later, he would be revealed to have a female cousin, Kara, daughter of Jor-El’s brother, Zor-El.

Even as a kid I was already fascinated by the history of names and their origins, and I found it very interesting that the advanced culture of Krypton had what appeared to be separate naming traditions for males and females.

At least, at first. Is it strictly coincidence that the rise of feminism and the “women’s liberation” movement in the Seventies also saw old-fashioned proprietorial attitudes being exported from Earth to Superman’s birth world? Lara became Lara Jor-El, establishing her subservience to her husband. Kara became Kara Zor-El. Seemed like maybe those middle aged White guys who were running DC were rebelling against the women’s movements. Unconsciously?

I miss the old days.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6550
Posted: 11 December 2024 at 5:10pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Superman's publishing history is fascinating to me. This is a good example of why.

Superman is such an incredible character. He inhabits so much wish-fulfillment that he's almost an icon in the old religious sense. He's our agreed idea of "Superman".

In his stories, from era to era, example to example, I think we see the mental barnacles of the creative teams. "New" ideas interact or interfere with something that's inherent to the character and it gets pretty easy to sense psychological issues at work.

Edited by Mark Haslett on 11 December 2024 at 5:11pm
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian Hughes
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 15 June 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 316
Posted: 11 December 2024 at 11:06pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

It even followed to the 78 movie.  Remember when Jor El is talking to the council?  Vond-Ah had no house crest on her outfit.  Only the men wore them.  Same with Lara.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2390
Posted: 12 December 2024 at 7:34am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

I can't say that I've ever heard "Lara Jor-El" before.  It was always "Jor-El and Lara" for me as I came and went through the decades.

"Kara Zor-El" just sounds pretty good.  I can imagine that the editor or writer wanted to give her a "full name" and "Kara-El" would be confusing--sounds like Kal-El's sister or wife.

To this very minute, I just assumed that girls/unmarried women from Krypton went by their father's name and married women got the Madonna/Cher treatment.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3507
Posted: 12 December 2024 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I can sort of buy into the gendered naming tradition as a symptom of the idea that while Krypton was an incredibly advanced society, they also had their blind spots - such as that they ostracized Jor-El for his predictions of planetary doom, rather than taking them seriously and immediately working together to try to solve them. Not that any of that was deliberately intended, I suppose.

Usually, in the stuff I've read from the Silver Age through the Bronze Age, whenever other Kryptonians show up, they're not presented as paragons of virtue or as advanced in any way other than technologically, with Superman's moral code, clear-mindedness, and dedication to justice and fairness standing in sharp contrast to his brethren. A testament to his human heritage.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3507
Posted: 12 December 2024 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

It's also worth noting that the treasure and baggage comes almost directly from the Ashkenazic cultural background of his creators and shepherds for the first few decades of his existence. American Jews were dedicated to social justice, equality, and the advancement of knowledge and science; we also had a built-in patriarchal bias, especially baffling when you consider that Judaism is a matrilineal heritage. Taking cues from a hodgepodge of scripture from several thousand years ago is going to leave some notably odd artifacts in anything that stems from it.
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133711
Posted: 12 December 2024 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

But remember, this proprietorial naming tradition was not part of Siegel and Shuster’s original model.
Back to Top profile | search
 
ron bailey
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 1100
Posted: 12 December 2024 at 5:07pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

I was a kid in the '70's ... why is "women's liberation" in quotes?
Back to Top profile | search
 

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

  Post Reply | Post New Topic |

Forum Jump

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login

You are currently viewing the MOBILE version of the site.
CLICK HERE TO VIEW THE FULL SITE