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Topic: Nobody’s Safe (especially the little guy) Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2390
Posted: 18 December 2024 at 3:55am | IP Logged | 1 post reply
In another thread, I discovered that Karen Page (despite her being a fan favorite of the Netflix DAREDEVIL show and high demand responsible for bringing her back in the upcoming Disney+ show) died in the comics 25 years ago!

My first thought was "Only dumb writers kill off important supporting characters!"  But I need to temper that somewhat.

In general, I feel that only a character's creator should be allowed to kill him/her off.  If Stan Lee came back to SPIDER-MAN after 50 years and killed Aunt May, I would say okay.  (Following this rule, I know, a TON of characters would be safe--and I'm okay with that!)  Characters can die, but mostly (I think) only if they were created to die--like Uncle Ben or Bruce Wayne's parents.  I'm not sure if Frank Miller created Elektra with her death already planned, but it was his option either way.

Supporting characters seem to have it especially bad off--they are usually killed off as collateral damage!  (And then sometimes stuffed into a refrigerator.)  At least when a hero dies, it's often a more noble, self-sacrificing death.

Enough with killing off supporting characters!  Likewise, no willy nilly resurrections!  I was fine with Jim Starlin killing off Thanos--and I was also fine with him bringing him back!  A character's creator should have that option.

What do the rest of you think?  Was an important supporting character's death (by a later writer) ever the right thing to do?


Edited by Eric Jansen on 18 December 2024 at 4:55am
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6550
Posted: 18 December 2024 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 2 post reply
Frank Miller left Elektra dead for 9 issues.

I’m pretty sure Doctor Doom has been dead longer than that.

I agree with your general ban on trying to really kill important characters.
It’s what comedians call a “cheap laugh” from writers who want to leave a
mark.
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Brian Miller
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Joined: 28 July 2004
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Posted: 18 December 2024 at 12:09pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply
So the death of Jean Grey was a “cheap laugh?”
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133711
Posted: 18 December 2024 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply
In this context, no.

What is so often forgotten is that the death of Phoenix was not a calculated event. It happened without planning by those of us who worked on it. In fact one of us, me, thought it would be the end of the story.

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Michael Penn
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Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12791
Posted: 18 December 2024 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply
JB, did you have any indications that very early on Chris Claremont was already having notions of... this is not the end of the story?
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133711
Posted: 18 December 2024 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply
At the time, no, but it soon became obvious that he would use any excuse, no matter how contrived, to reference Jean and Phoenix.

It became a joke around the office that Phoenix was Marvel’s least dead dead character. “That stop light! Its blazing red reminds me of…JEAN!”

(Ultimately this served a purpose Chris had not intended. His unending references so reduced the impact of her death that it became possible to bring Jean back for X-FACTOR—-tho that opened another can of worms.)

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Daniel Gillotte
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Joined: 11 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2685
Posted: 18 December 2024 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply
When I heard that they brought back Bucky it made me mad. I wasn't reading those comics but the press about it set my hackles up. Some deaths in comic should have the character remain dead. BUT, then I read the stories and what was mined with Winter Soldier and I became less sure of my feeling.
Ultimately, I have less of a problem with a character returnign from the dead if good stories can be told.

However I find that the proliferation of the multiverse (In DC and Marvel) reduces the stakes of character's deaths so much as to be meaningless.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133711
Posted: 18 December 2024 at 3:43pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply
The problem with bringing Bucky back is that it should have an absolutely devastating effect on Cap. Nearly insurmountable.

Stan and Jack got rid of Bucky in order to unencumber Cap and inject a little Marvel style drama into the backstory.

All well and good. But if Bucky comes back, Cap is confronted with the fact that he did nothing to confirm the fate of his partner, even though he himself had survived. He should have spent months, even years exhausting every avenue that would lead to Bucky’s final fate.

Not the most exciting comics—tho Stan and Jack would be the ones to find a way—and best ignored for the most part.

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Michael Penn
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Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12791
Posted: 18 December 2024 at 4:33pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply
In re Resurrecting Phoenix (which can't be denied is central to the mythology of the name, but that's neither here nor there as per Jean Grey's fate), I assume Mr. Claremont's going back to that character was extremely popular with fans and the Marvel higher-ups. But I was just about gone as a reader by then, so I don't really know.

I was also long gone when Bucky came back, but I wasn't a fan of Rick Jones, in general, nor of his time as Cap's new sidekick.
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Brian Floyd
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Joined: 07 July 2006
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Posted: 18 December 2024 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply
Rick Jones I have never found interesting at all.
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Steve De Young
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Joined: 01 April 2008
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Posts: 3520
Posted: 18 December 2024 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply
I think the publishers are realizing that a big problem with bringing back these dead characters is that they basically have one story: "______ is back from the dead!" After that, they kinda don't know what to do with the character long term.

See Bucky...Jason Todd...Ben Reilly....etc. etc.
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6550
Posted: 18 December 2024 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply
One of my first encounters with Marvel Comics was the pocketbook
collection of Hulk 1-6 and Rick Jones seemed like one of the most
important characters in comic books to me. A part of me has never
recovered from the difference between that first impression and the reality
of Rick’s place in the grand scheme.
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