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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134648
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Posted: 21 June 2025 at 12:48am | IP Logged | 1
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1) Call ‘em paperbacks!2) Funny story. In those simpler times when it was, indeed, possible to goof around “behind the scenes” without it being broadcast all over the planet, I did, indeed, draw Storm with an exposed breast. I knew Terry would get a chuckle out of it, and I knew he’d fix it. Which, indeed, he did. Sort of. He inked what I had drawn, then laid a heavy zipatone over it. In response to some freaking out in the office, Terry pointed out that the normal printing process of letterpress color on pulp paper would cause the zipatone to muddy up and turn solid black. And that’s just what happened. Unfortunately, neither Terry nor I, nor anyone else in the office could have predicted that the issue containing that page would be reprinted multiple times, by better and better processes—and even in black and white And once that happened…….
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Josh Goldberg Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2108
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Posted: 21 June 2025 at 1:55am | IP Logged | 2
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Evan,You talking about these?
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Mark McKay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2283
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Posted: 21 June 2025 at 4:18am | IP Logged | 3
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I’ve mentioned it before when this topic has come up: David Mazzuccelli‘s Asterios Polyp feels like one of the closest things I’ve seen in that could truly be called a “graphic novel“. It uses many trappings of a classic American novel story, but telling it in ways that only a visual format could.
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Trevor Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 3597
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Posted: 21 June 2025 at 10:18am | IP Logged | 4
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Ohh, that Cap/Baron Blood B&W brings back memories. I had both it and an Avengers with a gorgeous Earl Norem cover in the same format.
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Joe Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6704
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Posted: 21 June 2025 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 5
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ASTERIOS POLYP is the coolest looking book I own.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31633
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Posted: 21 June 2025 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | 6
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Looking up ASTERIOS POLYP, I just discovered two things. Richmond Lewis is a woman and she’s married to Mazzucchelli.
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Edward Aycock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2024 Location: United States Posts: 54
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Posted: 25 June 2025 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 7
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I've been reading some Eisner works recently, including "The Contract with God Trilogy" (beautiful but brutal) which does bear the claim by the people who write the introductions and criticism as "the first graphic novel". Eisner even states that himself. The stories have even been put into a Norton Critical Edition which, if you were an English major, you'd recognize those prestigious publications.
It's enlightening to see all the definitions here of "graphic novel" and how fluid it has become. And I did misname the trade paperback of "Crisis on Infinite Earths" as a graphic novel to a friend once because he was a bit of a snob and saw my comics collection as silly.
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31633
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Posted: 25 June 2025 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 8
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BLACKMARK by Gil Kane is pretty damn great.
HIS NAME IS… SAVAGE predates even that.
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Dave Kopperman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3834
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Posted: 25 June 2025 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | 9
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The whole 'which is the first graphic novel' debate - leaving aside the nomenclature argument - is just a rabbit hole that goes exactly nowhere. Milt Gross, Frans Masreel, Lynd Ward, etc. etc. are names that are going to get tossed up just for the 20th century. There's much to be said for innovation, but if something doesn't spark a movement or a media sea change then it tends to not really be part of the history in the same way.
It's kind of like saying 'who is the first superhero?'
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134648
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Posted: 25 June 2025 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | 10
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Samson.
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Dave Kopperman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 3834
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Posted: 25 June 2025 at 7:38pm | IP Logged | 11
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Doesn't The Epic of Gilgamesh predate the Book of Judges?
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Joseph Vecchio Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 October 2024 Posts: 27
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Posted: 26 June 2025 at 7:46am | IP Logged | 12
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I hate getting into these ballads, as George Carlin would say. I make no comment about "best", which is always subjective. I prefer "favorite". Also I won't try to make a specific definition of "graphic novel" because that would leave out some very good stories. And not being an artist or writer, all I can offer is an opinion on the matter, you all can take them for what they're worth.
"A Contract With God" is my favorite. True, it's just a series of short stories but they revolve around a particular setting. I don't think they were serialized previously. I met Mr. Eisner at a convention and he signed my copy, and I told him that I grew up in a Brooklyn tenement not that different from the one on Dropsie Ave., though my neighborhood was Italian and Puerto Rican rather than Jewish. I showed it to my dad, who remembered the alley singers.
I'm also a fan of "Maus" for similar reasons, as it deals with relationships, not to mention the historical nature.
I'm surprised no one mentioned Hayao Mitazaki's brilliant series "Nausicaa Of The Valley Of Wind", which, as good as the movie was, is leaps and bounds above it.
Love and Rockets had several good storylines within its run, "Heartbreak Soup" and "Human Diastrophism" by Gilbert, and "The Death of Speedy Cholo" and "Mechanics" by Jaime are particular favorites.
Dave Sim's "Cerebus" has been mentioned, I would say "High Society", and "Jaka's Story" are my favorites there.
As far as superhero stories go, that's a little harder, I guess it depends on your definition of a "graphic novel". Some of my favorites along those lines are Frank Miller's "Born Again" run on Daredevil and Walt Simonson's longer run on "Thor".
"Watchmen" hasn't aged well, in my opinion. I always just laughed at "300" and "V for Vendetta", the former because the homosexual/pedophilia society built by the Spartans was completely ignored (I had someone tell me the Athenians also had homosexuality in their society, but that's like the difference between throwing a bullet and shooting it), and anything involving Guy Fawkes and "freedom" ignores the fact that he didn't care about freedom, he just wanted a Catholic hegemony as opposed to a Protestant one.
I could say a lot more but it's almost 3am and I'm tired.
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