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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134659
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| Posted: 02 July 2025 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | 1
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Came upon THIS just now. Very sad. I’ve known for decades that Dave deeply resented my being brought in to replace him on X-MEN, but I had experienced only a whisper of this deep, smoldering hatred he seems to have borne toward me. Enough for him to rewrite history in his own mind.
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Craig Earl
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1524
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| Posted: 02 July 2025 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | 2
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Wow. I was completely unaware of this.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6975
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| Posted: 02 July 2025 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | 3
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I read lots of John Byrne interviews and they always contained praise for Dave Cockrum-- sometimes so effusive that I had to reconsider my own opinion of his work.
The Byrne/Austin issues were revered within fandom, but they did not do much for sales and, indeed, sales continued to climb when Dave came back and then shot through the roof when Paul Smith arrived.
I think Dave is conflating a lot of things. The way he puts it, the flurry of fan-activity around John Byrne seems like a thing that cost him something.
Looking at the Cockrum/Austin covers, I wonder what might have been if Dave had benefited from that Terry Austin gleam on his issues of X-Men. No offense to any other inkers, but something about Terry Austin seems heaven-sent to be on The Uncanny X-Men and everyone who tasted of that grape seems to have been rewarded.
Paul Smith's first X-Men story in Marvel Fanfare was inked by Terry and I LOVED IT as a "return" to the style he had contributed to before.
Whatever the case, I wish Dave had felt easier about his incredible talents and his place among the "stars".
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3838
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| Posted: 02 July 2025 at 3:41pm | IP Logged | 4
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Not that I necessarily doubt the authenticity of the quote, but I'd be interested to see where and when it was originally printed. I'm usually a little suspicious of lengthy quotes with no linked sources - they credit something called 'Cockrum Corner' at the end; anyone know what that is?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134659
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| Posted: 02 July 2025 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 5
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No access to Google, Dave?
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Giorgos Goumas
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 June 2005
Location: Greece
Posts: 69
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| Posted: 02 July 2025 at 3:56pm | IP Logged | 6
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It is from this forum I believe
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3838
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| Posted: 02 July 2025 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 7
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Huh! I use Bing and weirdly the first post to come up was that IG post, with the old forum not even turning up. First return on Google, though.
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Craig Earl
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 July 2019
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1524
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| Posted: 02 July 2025 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | 8
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I came on board with issue 125, so the first 'New' X-Men that I saw was JB's version. I was immediately hooked, and eventually caught the Giant-SIze debut (and subsequent issues) via UK B&W reprints.
For me, all the 'ingredients' were there for what I would eventually love, though they were not fully formed. When JB then left the book, it also lost something, and I didn't go back as a regular reader for a while. I had always quite liked Dave's work, without really loving it.
Before hearing the above, I was blissfully unaware of any resentment toward JB. The only controversial Cockrum thing I had heard was the 'resignation letter' in that issue of Iron-Man.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134659
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| Posted: 02 July 2025 at 4:05pm | IP Logged | 9
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I think Dave is conflating a lot of things. The way he puts it, the flurry of fan-activity around John Byrne seems like a thing that cost him something.••• Some decades back I saw an interview with Dave in which he expressed disdain for me and my work. A diabetic, Dave commented that he wished he had my money and I had his feet. This troubled me, as it seemed to indicate he felt he was the one truly entitled to my royalties, but none of the money I was making sprang from my work on X-MEN. Royalties did not arrive until years after I left that book. (Similar confusion seemed to infect the mind of a fan I met one year at MidOhioCon. He was outraged that I had become “a millionaire” thru my work on X-MEN, while Dave barely subsisted on what he earned. (I attempted to explain that, first of all, there were no royalties paid during my time on the book, that the sales were very low by Marvel’s standards of the time, and that the cover price was, in any case, only 35˘. There was no big money to be made there.)
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16614
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| Posted: 02 July 2025 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | 10
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I am a fan of both JB and Dave Cockrum. JB is my favorite artist, however, and I have to admit I was disappointed when JB left the X-Men title, though I love the FF run.
And, honestly, I liked Dave's first stint on the title over his second. Artists evolve, naturally, and while I appreciate his later art more the older I get, there were little things, like how Storm's hair was bushier as opposed to flowing, and such, that I wasn't happy with when he took over the second time around.
I also must disagree with Dave's assessment that JB's art was simplistic. If anything, JB's art was detailed and revelatory for me, with a nuance that I didn't get from other contemporary artists of that period. The melding of JB with Austin was, for me, perfection, too. It just had a special something.
That all noted, I think Dave's resentment was misplaced. I think he saw what the X-Men became and unfortunately was not able to reap the financial rewards that he deserved for help putting the title and characters on the map of pop culture relevancy, and chose JB as his target for that resentment. After all, what exactly did JB do wrong here? He took a job that Dave willingly left, that's it. I've never seen JB attack Dave, ever. JB has only had kind words for Dave in all the interview, posts, etc., I've read.
Edit: Typos... bane of my existence.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 02 July 2025 at 4:52pm
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Jason K Fulton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 September 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 777
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| Posted: 02 July 2025 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 11
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Really difficult to see how Cockrum's inability to produce a monthly book was the fault of anyone other than himself. I don't remember FUTURIANS having a long run, either.
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ron bailey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 1281
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| Posted: 02 July 2025 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | 12
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Falling short of being able to capitalize on what he created with the X-Men was his greatest missed opportunity. Given his gifts of creating and working with large groups of characters, he could have easily followed a similar path as George Perez.
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