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Steven Myers
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5724
Posted: 30 September 2025 at 4:03pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

I recently had to tell a first grade student to take the pencils out from between his fingers, as he was pretending they were Wolverine's claws. And I had the thought "It's all John Byrne's fault!". And that got me thinking, because even though there have been many creative hands involved in the character, I give JB the most credit. After all, the character may have been dropped from the X-Men if our host hadn't protested. And then the character started getting popular. And more popular. And now it's 2025 and kids are still fantasizing about having wolverine claws.

All these years later. Who's have figured?
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135064
Posted: 30 September 2025 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Maybe I should borrow from Roy Thomas and claim a role in the creation of Wolverine?

$$$$$

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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4859
Posted: 30 September 2025 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

I wouldn't fault you if you did, JB!

No argument... Logan's popularity rose while you were on UXM.

-C!
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135064
Posted: 30 September 2025 at 5:56pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

This returns to something I have mentioned before: in a medium like comics, there is only one true act of CREATION: when there is NOTHING and then there is SOMETHING.

Most of what we do is EXTRAPOLATION, not CREATION.

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Michael Penn
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Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13021
Posted: 30 September 2025 at 6:11pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

I very much appreciate your choice of word for what mostly is (or should be done) after the act of creation: extrapolation, especially in contrast to elaboration.
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8364
Posted: 30 September 2025 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Wolverine may be one of the only superheroes with their primary identity and alter-ego created by different people!  
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Bill Collins
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: England
Posts: 11436
Posted: 01 October 2025 at 12:29am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

It struck me that the minor character i loved in the 70's
was in the public consciousness when i saw the
proliferation of young lads called Logan in the early
2,000's after the X-Men movies.
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4933
Posted: 01 October 2025 at 3:51am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Vinny - we've seen a lot of them -

Patsy Walker + the Cat = Hellcat
Carol Danvers + Captain Mar-Vell = Ms. Marvel
Jane Foster + Brunnhilde = Valkyrie

Granted, Wolverine is a character who they tacked an origin story to years after his debut, but there have been others that they have done that to (the Vision. for instance) and some who have been greatly altered over the years (Captain America, Quicksilver & Scarlet Witch, Spider-Woman, Falcon, Thor).

My least favorite is the history of tacking on costumes identities to lon-time supporting characters (Pepper Potts, Carol Danvers, Jane Foster, Rick Jones, Betty Ross, Thunderbolt Ross, Flash Thompson, Harry Osborn, Gwen Stacy, Mary Jane Watson, Harry Osborn, Cassie Lang, James Rhodes, Bill Foster).  Many of them were "legacy characters"

Does anyone other than Stan Lee and Steve Ditko deserve credit for creating the Harry Osborn Green Goblin?  No, he was merely extrapolated from the two Kirby/Ditko creations.




Edited by Robert Bradley on 01 October 2025 at 3:52am
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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 4123
Posted: 01 October 2025 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Steve Engelhart and Joe Staton are now being credited as co-creators of Guy Gardner, because they altered his looks and personality in the 80s.

LINK

To me, this just makes it harder to understand what really counts as creating characters. 

(And aside from variations in haircut and costume, Guy's current personality seems to have been there from the cover his first appearance in 1968):

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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135064
Posted: 01 October 2025 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

I thought Guy’s personality was the result of brain damage?

Incidentally, I was googling some of my own work with Guy in LEGENDS and was struck by how much my version of him looks like Nathan Fillion—-long before I ever heard of Nathan Fillion!

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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8364
Posted: 01 October 2025 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

 Robert Bradley wrote:
Vinny - we've seen a lot of them -

Patsy Walker + the Cat = Hellcat
Carol Danvers + Captain Mar-Vell = Ms. Marvel
Jane Foster + Brunnhilde = Valkyrie

Welllll, maybe I should have been more specific. Your examples are all civilians who became superheroes later in life, and yes do fit my initial criteria. But Wolverine was introduced in reverse - superhero first (wearing a mask), civilian identity/face reveal later - with the extra irony that it was actually his civilian look that actually became worldwide famous, to the point that I feel it's unfair that Dave Cockrum doesn't get a co-creator credit for that. That's much more rare.


Edited by Vinny Valenti on 01 October 2025 at 3:06pm
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13021
Posted: 01 October 2025 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

Dr. Strange was superhero first and civilian identity later, but by the same creators -- so, ...thinking that Vinny, you may be right and Wolverine is unique: superhero first and civilian identity later by different creators. Kind of Silver Surfer, right, with Lee-Kirby introducing the character but Lee-Buscema revealing the Norrin Radd origin...?
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