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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4419
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 1
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What if an artist traces a photo that he himself took for the very purpose of
incorporating into comic art? Is that cheating?
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Ian Evans
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 September 2004
Posts: 2433
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 4:56pm | IP Logged | 2
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Yep.
In my view.
FWIW, as we say on the net....
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Charles Jensen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 1127
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 5:02pm | IP Logged | 3
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Maybe we need to seperate the craft of drawing and "art" in general.
I think the SI cover tracing definitely qualifies as "art"(though it isn't art I appreciate) but doesn't say a lot about the artist's drawing skills.
Edited by Charles Jensen on 27 August 2005 at 5:02pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136262
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | 4
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Wally Wood is supposed to have said something along the lines of "Never draw what you can swipe, never swipe what you can trace, never trace what you can xerox and paste in, and never do any of that if you can hire someone to do it for you." Around about the last step it becomes "cheating", imho. Otherwise....
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Steve Lieber
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 July 2004
Posts: 295
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 5:48pm | IP Logged | 5
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If anyone's interested in learning about the history of photo-realistic comic art, go here:
http://profmendez.tripod.com/html/photo2.htm
It's a fun, well-written, thoroughly-researched site, with lots of
drop-dead gorgeous work by many of the best photo-realist comic book
and strip artists, including Stan Drake, Neal Adams, Paul Gillon, Al
Williamson, Alex Raymond and more. And do yourself a favor and bookmark
it, because you're going to want to go back to it the next time this
conversation comes around.
Edited by Steve Lieber on 27 August 2005 at 5:52pm
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John Mietus
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9695
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | 6
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So, Ian, I take it you think Steranko was cheating when he used xeroxes
of photos in his artwork?
I'm getting the impression that the people who are shocked by this, or are
objecting to it, are those who haven't tried to make a living at it.
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Todd Hembrough
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 4171
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | 7
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For me it is exactly what I said, simply a surprise. I had no
idea that copying or tracing other peoples work, whether they be the
photographer who took the SI cover, or the director of Troy, could
happen or would be allowed to happen.
Like I said above, I am naive about these things, and I certainly dont
make my living in art. If I did, I would way 50 pounds less
becuase I couldnt afford to buy food.
T
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Todd Hembrough
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 4171
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 6:18pm | IP Logged | 8
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Steve said:
If anyone's interested in learning about the history of photo-realistic comic art, go here:
http://profmendez.tripod.com/html/photo2.htm
----
I am in the process of checking out htis very interesting site. Thanks.
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F. Ron Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1289
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 9
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For those with an interest in a classical investigation into the world of
"tracing" I reccomend David Hockney's "Secret Knowledge, Rediscovering
the Lost Techniques of the Old Masters"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0670030260/qid =1125188501/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/104-5626969-1170324?v=gl ance&s=books
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Todd Hembrough
Byrne Robotics Member
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Posts: 4171
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 6:38pm | IP Logged | 10
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From the above book:
His answer led to fascinating insights into the history of art: that
many of the world's most revered artists used mirrors and various
optical devices—such as the camera obscura—to project images onto their
canvasses and then "traced" the scenes. Hockney's radical speculations
have prompted both astonishment and outrage from prominent art
historians and museum directors worldwide. The debate aside, Secret Knowledge offers readers the exhilarating opportunity to see the Old Masters afresh—through the eyes of a living master.
---------
That is all well and good, but if Monet (or any of the others) traced
the outline of the Rouen Cathedral (or the Piazza San Marco) on
his canvas, he then painted it, and frankly, the art is in the
painting.
But again, I am no artist, so this laymans interpretation and 4 bucks will get you a double mocha frappacino...
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F. Ron Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1289
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 6:43pm | IP Logged | 11
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Todd--
Absolutely! And that very sentiment is repeated many times by Hockney
throughout the book.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136262
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 12
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I saw a program a while back on Vermeer, that revealed new research had proven almost conclusively that he used the camera obscura when producing his paintings. "Traced" an image projected onto the canvas, in other words. This explained the nearly photographic representation in his pictures -- the way elements are in and out of focus in a way we have come to expect in photos, but are not used to seeing in paintings -- especially not the Old Masters.Did not diminish my appreciation of his work by one iota. Might even have increased it. And, hey, come on! Can anyone call a method that produces THIS "cheating"?
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