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Al Cook
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 21 December 2004
Posts: 12736
Posted: 01 July 2008 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

An inker should have his own style, for sure, but it should never overpower
the pencils.

Ordway's always does.
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John Papandrea
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 647
Posted: 01 July 2008 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I like Jerry Ordway's work. (both pencils and inks) But I thought he went overboard on JLA; redrawing JB's work. It seems that Nelson followed this pattern in Action.

Jerry's work with George Perez deserves honorable mention.

 

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John Papandrea
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 647
Posted: 01 July 2008 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Just purchased a really good book called Curt Swan: A life in Comics in which JB is interviewed in. I was not really a big Swan fan but can see how his style influenced George Perez. Here are some pages from JB's run on Superman. These first two definitely have an Indiana Jones vibe to me.

 

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John Papandrea
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 647
Posted: 01 July 2008 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

A couple more. One from Superman and one from Man of Steel.

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Ferran Delgado
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Joined: 10 October 2006
Posts: 580
Posted: 01 July 2008 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Great pages, specially the one from Superman #7, which is awesome! How
the hell do you find them?!?! ;-)

I agree with you about how the first couple of OA reminds of Indiana
Jones. Kesel is not Austin, but they're also great. It's curious, but I
thought that the Superman #7 page was inked by Austin at first sight
(due to the backround effects in panels 2 and 4), but then I reminded that
he only inked the first three issues.

The Man of Steel page is also very interesting, with a large splash and
inked by Giordano.

BTW, the couple of X-Men pages you own which are colored, did you buy
them like this or did you comissioned Oliff yourself?
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John Papandrea
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 647
Posted: 01 July 2008 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Those first pages from Superman I purchased many many years ago! Directly from Jim Warden. I own quite a few JB pages and have been collecting his work for quite a few years now.

In regards to Terry Austin, Austin's work on anything JB has done has always been favorites of mine. I believe Terry only inked the first couple of issues of Superman with Keith Williams assisting on backgrounds. Although Kesel is not a favorite inker of JB, I did like the end result on Superman as well as Legends.

In regards to the colored X-Men pages, I bought those colored. I thought that it was dumb to color the orginal art. The comic page itself is colored so I didn't see the need to damage a work of art. (as I see them) But a Byrne/Austin X-men page is something I can't pass up.  :-)



Edited by John Papandrea on 01 July 2008 at 2:38pm
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Ferran Delgado
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 10 October 2006
Posts: 580
Posted: 01 July 2008 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I visit your CAF gallery often since you own a collection that would be a
dream come true for any JB fan (and Pacheco's, Kirby's, Jim Lee, etc...).

When I read JB's run on X-Men when I was younger, I was not very aware
of the role of the embellisher till I read X-Men #118, which it was inked
by Ricardo Villamonte. What a shock! What a difference with the same
penciler! Since that moment I realized the power of the inker to boost the
original drawing or to ruin it. As you can imagine, I have fond memories
from that run inked by Terry Austin.

BTW, I could help you to get rid of these annoying colored pages from X-
Men. I wouldn't charge you too much to take them away from you... ;-)

Seriously, although Oliff is a great skilled colorist, for me is a taboo to
alter original art. But as you say, "a Byrne/Austin X-men page is
something I can't pass up."
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John Papandrea
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 647
Posted: 01 July 2008 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

That was Wolverine in that issue? I thought it was the beast!  ;-}

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Marc Baptiste
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Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3655
Posted: 01 July 2008 at 11:22pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Ferran,

Why do you feel JB's pencils needed "boosting" as you put it?  I couldn't disagree with you more.  Ordway redrew critical elements of that cover, and it turned out the worse for it.
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Ferran Delgado
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 10 October 2006
Posts: 580
Posted: 02 July 2008 at 2:46am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Marc,

I'm sure that you loved Terry Austin work on JB run on X-Men, didn't you?
As I see it, Terry "boosted" John's pencils, and the final result shocked us.

This doesn't mean that there were something wrong with the original
pencils, but this is the task of the embellisher: to take farther the original
drawings.

Wally Wood added his personal style on Kirby pencils in Sky Masters in a
way that sometimes it was hard to recognize that it was drawn by Jack. I
think that the final result was more than the sum of both parts. Was Kirby
offended with Wallace's work? He loved it!

About the JLA cover, I prefer also the final result with Ordway's
embellishment rather than the original pencils. Imho, he improved them,
but this is my personal vision.

I understand that you can be outraged because the redrawings, maybe
the same way I was with Colleta about Kirby. But another item is that
Jerry did the redrawings without John's agreement and permission, which
I feel that it is unethical.

In another hand, everybody is blaming Jerry, but maybe he did it at
editor's request. Who knows for sure?

All I'm asking is my right to like the final version, the same way that
Colleta fans also have their right to like his work (including erasing)
although I can't understand it.
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Steven Cassidy
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Joined: 19 February 2008
Posts: 611
Posted: 02 July 2008 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Who knows what really goes on behind the scenes of making a comic?

I agree that Ordways inks improved many aspects of Byrne's pencils in that JLA story -- I also can see where Ordway's style distracted from Byrne's pencils and style -- but that's an inherant risk involved with letting some other artist put the "ink" on the page.

Byrne's recent JLA story inked by Mark Farmer was a complete disappointment for me (both art and story - but let's just talk about art).   I saw Farmer just tracing Byrne's line, inking onto the page little "art short-cuts" instead of taking a few extra seconds to add some detail that Byrne left out or to correct some anatomy, etc.   There were entirely too many "O" faced people in this recent story --- something I doubt Ordway would have allowed if he had inked those pages.

I believe the penciler/inker relationship should be a sum of the parts -- I clearly see Byrne and clearly see Ordway in those JLA pages.   I personally like that.

 

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Steven Cassidy
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 February 2008
Posts: 611
Posted: 02 July 2008 at 9:49am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

to add -----

Even Mr Byrne says quite often that he tried something different with his line (on commissions).  That's the INKED line he's refering to, the last line left on the page.   I think that approach to changing subtle aspects of one's own work is the same thinking behind having different artists of differing strengths ink pencils.  I know the dual penciler/inker thing is also a time issue for getting deadlines met on comic production -- but if "tracing" was all the editors wanted -- we'd all be inkers.

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