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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31512
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| Posted: 09 April 2025 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 1
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It totally ignores the very real fact that tariffs were, in part, a reason for the
Guilded Age where a majority of money was held in the hands of a very few
incredibly rich people (often called robber barons) and were a large reason
for keeping wages low, sweat houses, and substandard lives for all but the
exceedingly rich.
************
Don’t think for a minute that this isn’t the goal of the tariffs of today.
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Brian Floyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8782
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| Posted: 09 April 2025 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | 2
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Peter Navarro's credibility is now completely shot. Since 2001, Navarro has been quoting an economist named "Ron Vara" in his books. He even used him to justify the tariffs.
Someone finally put two and two together (meaning it wasn't a Trump supporter, who would get three out of that) and realized "Ron Vara" is Navarro's last name with the letters rearranged.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36272
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| Posted: 09 April 2025 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 3
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Brennan Voboril wrote:
| Matt I never said that because tariffs were successful in the past that they will be successful today. You're putting words in my mouth. |
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I am not. You keep bringing it up, often just in a single sentence to let it sit there to do…what exactly?
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Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1810
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| Posted: 09 April 2025 at 2:37pm | IP Logged | 4
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It's just a historical fact. You're reading too much into it.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 09 April 2025 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 5
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Someone finally put two and two together (meaning it wasn't a Trump supporter, who would get three out of that) and realized "Ron Vara" is Navarro's last name with the letters rearranged. ••• I was trained by all those stories I read as a kid, where characters (usually villains) create anagrams of their names. Any unusual name and my brain immediately scans it backwards or inside out. Bjorn Heyn anyone? Jenny Bohr? Johnny Reb?
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Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1810
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| Posted: 09 April 2025 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 6
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It totally ignores the very real fact that tariffs were, in part, a reason for the Guilded Age where a majority of money was held in the hands of a very few incredibly rich people (often called robber barons) and were a large reason for keeping wages low, sweat houses, and substandard lives for all but the exceedingly rich.
************
Don’t think for a minute that this isn’t the goal of the tariffs of today.
=====
In my view, Trump is trying to bring back manufacturing to the US - not enrich the rich (who have lost billions since last week). As I said above, for many economic reasons, it won't work. If it were done over a generation, then maybe, but what investor is going to invest in new plant and equipment when in less than two years (the midterms) Trump could be neutered, or in the next presidential election a president could reverse all these measures? I sure wouldn't.
Edited by Brennan Voboril on 09 April 2025 at 2:57pm
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36272
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| Posted: 09 April 2025 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | 7
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Brennan Voboril wrote:
| It's just a historical fact. You're reading too much into it. |
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I am not. If this were just a thread discussing history and one of the topics was a question about tariffs, then just stating a fact would be a reasonable response. When it’s a political thread discussing a wide variety of things but, at the moment, is focused on tariffs, bringing up a line item mentioning tariffs having been successful some 150 odd years ago is another thing entirely. A great many things were successful at some distant point in the past but that are not or would not be today. I see no point in bringing it up without context in this thread other than to make a statement.
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Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011
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| Posted: 09 April 2025 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 8
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Ironically, Biden raised tariffs Trump 1.0 had applied.
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Kevin Brown
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09 April 2025 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | 9
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Biden raised tariffs for China and Russia.... Not against our allies.
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Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011
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| Posted: 09 April 2025 at 4:11pm | IP Logged | 10
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To be precise, Biden applied tariffs to the EU, India, Turkey and Cambodia - in addition to Russia and China. So to say his tariffs were not against allies in imprecise i.e. false.
My own view is that no matter who the president is, the US wants dominance over Europe in terms of trade.
Edited by Brennan Voboril on 09 April 2025 at 4:27pm
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Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
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| Posted: 09 April 2025 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | 11
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Brennan, are you seriously suggesting that 10% tariffs are even the same thing as 104%? Hamilton would have spit his Madeira if he heard such a suggestion. Just because we've had tariffs before doesn't make them the same thing as what Trump is doing. One is a fire in the fireplace, the other is setting the garage on fire.
For the record (re: Hamilton), the US Federal budget was 1.5% of GDP from 1790-1810 and 24.9% of GDP in 2024. US trade to GDP was 12% of GDP back then, 27% 2024. It's a very different world now, and the country is very different. Very hard to make an apples-to-apples comparison.
Not to put words in your mouth, but *you've* been the one suggesting tariffs "worked" back then. Sure. They weren't done in an extreme willy-nilly way by a guy who's understanding of basic economics seems sorely lacking.
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Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011
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| Posted: 09 April 2025 at 5:00pm | IP Logged | 12
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That is exactly what I said above.
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