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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135034
Posted: 26 September 2025 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

The utter frustration of a short and meaningless life of course inspired primitive people to invent the gods. Clutching at the idea that there must be “more” gives mere mortals the strength to soldier on.

And once we figure out there is POWER to be gained…..

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Evan S. Kurtz
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 04 July 2022
Location: Canada
Posts: 186
Posted: 26 September 2025 at 2:11pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

If you think about it, religion is a natural element of the same kind of inquisitive mind we need to investigate science. We don't have answers to these questions - our best guess is this. 

The problem is, way, way too many people got satisfied with the first "best guess" and resisted new information that confronted what they thought to be the "truth." 

All we're ever going to have is a best guess. But now we're working overtime to make sure that tomorrow's best guess will be worse than yesterday's. 
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Dave Kopperman
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3775
Posted: 26 September 2025 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

Everything good about religion has everything bad about religion built right into it. Community building? Excommunication and persecution. Literacy and education? Dogmatic thinking and banned philosophies. Ethical guidelines? Control over what you can do with your junk.

And then even the bad shit leads to good shit - the Renaissance likely wouldn't have happened without the Crusades seeding them. While religion started from a place of wonder and fear, its mostly served as a contextual vessel for our aggressive tendencies.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135034
Posted: 26 September 2025 at 4:13pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

“Everything good about religion” kinda falls into the “Mussolini made the trains run on time” category!
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6928
Posted: 26 September 2025 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

JB: The utter frustration of a short and meaningless life of course inspired primitive people to invent the gods. Clutching at the idea that there must be “more” gives mere mortals the strength to soldier on.And once we figure out there is POWER to be gained…..

**

I imagine two cavemen. One gets an idea. He makes a box and won't let anyone look inside. "It's a mystery box!" he says. "No one can know what's in it but me."

"But I want to know," says the other caveman, and the gleam of success sparkles in the first caveman's eye...

Cut to: ten thousand years later and his image in stain-glass over the great cathedral, he is the ancient high-priest, founder of the great ruling almighty church.

This caveman idea is just nonsense of course, a clumsy metaphoric idea, but it gets the important part right.

Edited by Mark Haslett on 26 September 2025 at 5:00pm
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Steve Coates
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 November 2014
Location: Canada
Posts: 870
Posted: 26 September 2025 at 5:35pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

KISS

Very long ago a distraught child asks a parent where their sibling went, the reply is they went to where grandfather is, where is that and can I go see them...

The birth of religion most likely was a simple lie to ease grief.

And remains the refuge of many experiencing the loss of loved ones.


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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135034
Posted: 26 September 2025 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

When I was six years old my paternal grandfather became ill and went into the hospital. My parents went often to visit him, leaving me with my grandmother.

One day, I realized it had been quite a while since they’d gone in, and I asked why they didn’t visit Grandad any more. In response, my parents did something for which I will be eternally grateful. They sat me down and told me he had died, and they explained what that meant. No fairy tales. They made it clear he was gone.

I grew up with no fear of death, and I am sure that is why.

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Brian ONeill
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 04 July 2024
Posts: 90
Posted: 26 September 2025 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Similar to the lie about pets('Lassie went to a farm to  run and play with other dogs'). I've seen many examples in fiction, but I wonder how commonly was it used in real life?
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8353
Posted: 26 September 2025 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Interesting. I am, well, deathly afraid of death. And I think that it's my non-belief in an afterlife that's fueling it. Just the idea of my limited time on this Earth being cut short, and from my perspective it's just the end of everything. I've even developed a fear of anesthesia, because the few times I've had it, it felt like how I imagine death would be like. But I think what bothers me the most about it is that I won't get to see "what happens next". 
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member


Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 13016
Posted: 26 September 2025 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

This Sunday will mark three weeks since my father died. He was into his 90s. Now, he did not go gentle into the good night. Hospitalized for his final two weeks, he kept wanting to go home. But, well, he lived in his own home, no hospitals, no nursing home, no home aides, nothing until his last fortnight. Not too bad a run, considering he was born into a world of poverty and war and death. Got shot at by Nazi machines guns as a kid, and rode off to hide on a donkey. I still have in my desk one of the stirrups from that. 

All doctors and nurses treated me with kindness but also expecting a flood of emotions. I just didn't have them, at least none of overwhelming demonstration. He raged against the dying of the light, but not with fear. So, I'm not afraid either.

(To be sick and helpless and pained and trapped in a failed body, though... that to me is terrifying.)
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135034
Posted: 26 September 2025 at 7:31pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

Similar to the lie about pets('Lassie went to a farm to run and play with other dogs'). I've seen many examples in fiction, but I wonder how commonly was it used in real life?

•••

My first dog was deeply disturbed, mentally. It was like living with an unexploded bomb. But I loved him beyond measure, and he was fiercely loyal and protective to me.

Until he bit me. A week later, he ran away. The same parents who had been so smart about handling my grandfather’s death, told me he had probably been picked by some farmer (we were living in a very rural area) and now running and playing on his farm. I was ten. I bought their story, and a few weeks later later they brought home another dog.

But I kept looking for Friskie the whole year we stayed in that house.

Ten years later—half my lifetime!—I was sitting at the kitchen table while my mother made lunch. Out of nowhere a phantom thought dropped into my head. “Friskie didn’t ‘run away’, did he?” Mom turned pale and sat down across from me. She told me the truth, that they’d had him put down.

(An additional layer. It wasn’t long after they acquired that second dog, Taffy, that we moved again, back to an apartment that didn’t allow dogs. My parents gave him to family friends who lived too far away for me to ride my bike to visit. The new family let him run loose. Within a year he was hit by a car and killed.)

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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 135034
Posted: 26 September 2025 at 7:33pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

This Sunday will mark three weeks since my father died.

•••

Condolences, Michael.

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