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Chris Blaise
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 327
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| Posted: 24 July 2009 at 8:16am | IP Logged | 1
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My money on this "return point" is that it's inevitable for it to become a jumping point for another thread of "madness".
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Larry Morris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 622
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| Posted: 24 July 2009 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 2
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QUOTE:
That's what I was talking about. Scott thought it was really weird that she would think something like that. He didn't come right out and say that she was being manipulated in any way, but his reaction indicated that it was something that came out of left field.
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Of course he's taken aback by it. I should hope he was. That's not the same thing as something is fishy, this isn't really Jean saying this stuff. I didn't see any mention of anything along those lines.
Whatever twists and turns there might be, my money is on Jean really feels that way about Logan. The reader is not being mislead about that. Again, we'll see. I won't be buying it, but I'm sure I'll see discussion of it.
Sins Past? I would have rather Peter been the father than Norman. Yeah, they told JMS Peter couldn't be the father. He's still the one who made Norman the father. I'm supposed to let him off the hook because it was his second idea instead of his first? Here is another idea. Drop it completely when he's told that Peter can't be the father.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36489
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| Posted: 24 July 2009 at 9:43am | IP Logged | 3
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Peter Parker as the father of illegitimate twin adult children is no more preferable than Norman Osborn being the father. The only way it is would be that we wouldn't have the horrible image of Gwen actually cheating on Peter with Norman. I feel dirty for just having written that, by the way. But the entire mess should have been dumped. It was just a bad, terrible idea. The instant JMS thought "Peter Parker. Father." he should have stopped.
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 24 July 2009 at 9:48am | IP Logged | 4
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Agreed. The alternative just makes a different character look bad.
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Larry Morris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 622
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| Posted: 24 July 2009 at 10:11am | IP Logged | 5
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Believe me, I'm not advocating Peter being the father either, but I find it far less distasteful than Norman.
You are telling me one of them has to be the father, I go with Peter. Ideally, no one.
At the end, what the hell was accomplshed? You gutted Gwen Stacy's character for how many stories have the twins been in? It's not like it even had a real long term effect on Peter. Was that really worth it to trash Gwen's character?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 136340
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| Posted: 24 July 2009 at 10:15am | IP Logged | 6
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Over the years, I have been surprised to note what seemed a rather intense animosity toward Gwen in some corners of fandom. Mostly -- and this is very, very sad -- this seemed to be inspired by her being the "nice girl" compared to MJ's "bad girl". So JMS gets to shit all over Gwen, with Marvel's blessing.
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Armindo Macieira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 October 2006
Location: Portugal
Posts: 955
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| Posted: 24 July 2009 at 10:30am | IP Logged | 7
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I still find it hard to believe that ANY so-called writer could even entertain the thought that Gwen would cheat Peter with Norman Osborn!! And worst, how the hell did this idea passed through Marvel editorial staff?! Do these guys drink during working hours??!
"Sins Past" it's wrong in SOOO many levels that I can't even begin to enumerate them.
A few q's come to mind when thinking about this:
Did JMS ever read comics before writing comics?
Was "Sins Past" a hit? Did Spider-man fans "approved" this non-sense??
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Larry Morris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 622
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| Posted: 24 July 2009 at 10:38am | IP Logged | 8
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What is so wrong with being nice? Nice people in superHERO comics, what a novel concept. Even if someone thought she was too nice, too bland, she's been gone for 30+ years. The other characters remember her fondly. Guess that wasn't good enough.
When the story came out JMS was on the net defending it. Another case of a writer thinking they are doing the character a favor. This story took her off her pedestal and humanized her. Because the characters have to be dragged through the mud to make them "relatable". I don't need them brought down to the average person's level. I have no problem with the notion of them being better than we are.
People just won't want to read about heroes anymore. Either that or they want a lot more clay in the feet than I do.
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 24 July 2009 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 9
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Armindo wrote:
| Did JMS ever read comics before writing comics? |
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Damned good question. I found myself asking that when reading the Spider Totem arc.
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Arc Carlton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 April 2009
Location: Peru
Posts: 3492
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| Posted: 24 July 2009 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 10
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Superheroes can no longer smoke at Marvel, but unprotected sex is okay!
______________________________
It almost seems like everything would be better if they started smking again.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36489
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| Posted: 24 July 2009 at 11:14am | IP Logged | 11
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Armindo Macieira wrote:
| Did Spider-man fans "approved" this non-sense?? |
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Sadly some did. A few in this thread are hoping the kids actually come back, that there might be a good story to tell with them. Sorry, but there is no good story to tell with these kids given the way in which they were vomited upon the reader.
I do, however, know quite a few people who dropped ASM after "Sins Past". I couldn't tell you the ratio of like it or hate it, but I've read heated debate on it. There's no debate for me. It was just a rotten-to-the-core idea.
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Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
Posts: 14203
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| Posted: 24 July 2009 at 11:22am | IP Logged | 12
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Sins Past was the breaking point for me. Stories like this could work, if at the end all is revealed to be a hoax or lie on part of the villians. But without that reveal that it was a lie, it makes for a creepy idea. One that turns you off to the characters. It was part of the reason I kept reading after the Spider-Totem. I figured it was going to be a red herring for the villians and all would be back to normal. Instead they let JMS get worse. Boxing themselves into a corner where their best idea was that Mephisto wipes away some stuff.
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