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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 16085
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| Posted: 12 March 2025 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | 1
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QUOTE:
| I'm not sure what people expected re: stripping security clearances. This is politics. It isn't a Sunday picnic with friends and family. Politics is dirty business. It always has been. It always will be. It is naive to think otherwise. |
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Sunday picnics have security clearances? The issue is that stripping these security clearances in a purge that appears to be without due process is not what has always been. It is one further piece of evidence of a worrying trend towards an authoritarian approach to politics in America and this is something new.
Furthermore, stripping these security clearances robs the current government of the ability to discuss classified issues with these people. For example, if Marco Rubio wanted to talk to, say, Antony Blinken to access his knowledge regarding foreign policy from the last four years, a lot of that ability will be blocked by Blinken's loss of security clearance. In other words, the government is losing all the benefit of that experience.
Edited by Peter Martin on 12 March 2025 at 8:48pm
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6672
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| Posted: 12 March 2025 at 9:13pm | IP Logged | 2
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Quote: I'm not sure what people expected re: stripping security clearances. This is politics. It isn't a Sunday picnic with friends and family. Politics is dirty business. It always has been. It always will be. It is naive to think otherwise.
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Security clearances are not "politics". Anyone who would say this does not work in security and does not even understand the concepts involved.
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Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1778
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| Posted: 12 March 2025 at 9:59pm | IP Logged | 3
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A purge without due process? I am not sure what that means. Is it legal, or isn't it?
As far as whether or not it is politics. Of course it is. It is called payback.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 16085
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| Posted: 13 March 2025 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
| Is it legal, or isn't it? |
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That is the crux of the matter, isn't it? The historical norm for America (derived from a long-held tenet of English common law) has been for due process to be in play: adherence to the established rules of the system which, in the case of the Government enforcing changes on individuals, means the Government's power is restricted by procedural protections. The established precedent is for revocation of security clearances to be subject to review.
The US Constitution, via the fifth and fourteenth amendments, guarantees an individual the right to conduct business. Any denial change to a security clearance may prevent future employment and is therefore a constitutional liberty interest. If the decision to strip "any active security clearances held by individuals at Perkins Coie" or for, say, Mark Zaid, is purely political payback rather than an issue of national security -- as you state and as seems clear -- then it would seem unconstitutional. In the case of Zaid, who has represented whistleblowers using his clearance for the last thirty years, it restricts his ability to practice law in this way going forward.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6672
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| Posted: 13 March 2025 at 9:09pm | IP Logged | 5
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Further, when you take away someone's security clearance, you create a security risk by creating disgruntled ex-employees who know your secrets and are vulnerable targets for your intelligence gathering adversaries.
Not to mention the standard operating procedure which is that such things are not done.
But never mind the facts, Tulsi Gabbard is a real peach and, if you hadn't heard, she used to be a Democrat!
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Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1778
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| Posted: 13 March 2025 at 10:02pm | IP Logged | 6
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So, let them go to court, and have a judge and/or a jury hear the case. I don’t believe they have a case, but I’m not an attorney.
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4907
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| Posted: 14 March 2025 at 12:46am | IP Logged | 7
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Okayyy, strap in, folks, the White House just dropped a banger that’d make even the most unhinged reality TV producer blush: they’ve ordered the U.S. military to cook up plans to “reclaim” the Panama Canal, per NBC News.
-C!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 14 March 2025 at 12:57am | IP Logged | 8
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Trumf REALLY wants to be a war president. I’m reminded of a passage in David Halberstam’s THE BEST AND THE BRIGHTEST, writing of LBJ. “He wanted to be an education president. Instead he became a war president, and not a very good one.” Trumf is going to make LBJ look like Lincoln.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6672
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| Posted: 14 March 2025 at 2:31am | IP Logged | 9
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C: they’ve ordered the U.S. military to cook up plans to “reclaim” the Panama Canal, per NBC News.
**
Additional madness: this is a re-run! This was a gambit that helped get Reagan elected. When he was seen as too old to run in the late 1970's, he started innovating and one gambit he took to was "weaponizing" the long-standing agreement to let the Canal return to Panama (having long before become an actual burden to maintain). Reagan "re-framed" it as "the Democrats" were letting America's greatness get undone-- they were even giving away our great Panama Canal!!
I just read about this in historian Rick Perlstein's thick and well-sourced biography, "REAGANLAND". So many things we see in Trump were tried out before by Ronald Reagan --now they're all being turned up to 11.
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David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3147
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| Posted: 14 March 2025 at 3:42am | IP Logged | 10
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Senate Democrats are about to sell out their constituents and America by supporting cloture on the Republican spending bill, which will ensure its passage. Cloture requires 60 votes, while passage requires a simple majority. Democratic senators can hold up the bill and put a pause on funding the Trump-Musk-Republican Party Axis's illegal campaign of vandalism, but are inexplicably poised to acquiesce, in fear of being blamed for a government shutdown.
Like many Americans, I'd prefer to defund Trump and Musk rather than cutting them a check. I sent a fax to my senators, as well as every one of Charles Schumer's offices, urging NO on cloture and NO on the bill.
In case anyone is interested in making their voices heard before tomorrow's vote, here is Schumer's contact information:
Albany: Phone: (518) 431-4070 Fax: (518) 431-4076
Binghamton Phone: (607) 772-6792 Fax: (607) 772-8124
Buffalo Phone: (716) 846-4111 Fax: (716) 846-4113
Melville Phone: (631) 753-0978 Fax: (631) 391-9068
New York City Phone: (212) 486-4430 Fax: (202) 228-2838
Peekskill Phone: (914) 734-1532 Fax: (914) 734-1673
Rochester Phone: (585) 263-5866 Fax: (585) 263-3173
Syracuse Phone: (315) 423-5471 Fax: (315) 423-5185
Washington D.C. Phone: (202) 224-6542 Fax: (202) 228-3027
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Phil Frances
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 351
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| Posted: 14 March 2025 at 4:14am | IP Logged | 11
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Trumf reckons he's resetting to achieve a new American Golden Age - errm - wouldn't that mean BETTER trade terms, and reaching out to engage more with all of the rest of us ? Like - how can we HELP you want to buy American products ? How can we make it more attractive for aluminium and steel firms to manufacture inside the US ? Not effectively hampering swathes of international trade with tariffs ?
So - instead of closing down everything, we OPEN UP ?
Nah - too difficult for Trumf - let's not spend time to think it out, as it might interfere with golf - just slap on a tariff and we're good. Shows I'm strong and clever ... or ... not.
Where I can, I'm now no longer buying American products - not always easy, as global corporates and supply chains muddy the waters, but - anything clearly or 'nearly' American is now off-limits. That includes comics and associated memorabilia - toys, kits, busts, statues. You don't deserve 'trade', as Trumf clearly now sees it only one way - US wins, or not at all. That's not trade - it's absolutism, and driven by someone waaay above their level of competence.
Well, this UK buyer is voting with his wallet - and there are plenty alongside me now doing the same. |
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 8006
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| Posted: 14 March 2025 at 7:31am | IP Logged | 12
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Trump sees anyone buying a non-American produced good as a subsidy,
not a trade
Which is nuts.
By that standard, no kne would trade with anyone.
Problem he has, is that he needs non-American resources to produce and
move those goods - so he wants ownership of those resources such as
Greenland, Ukraine and Panama Canal.
And he is clearly indicating that he will go to war to get them - either
militarily or financially.
He also complains that the EU and UK won’t allow his cars or food into their
markets. Yes we will, provided they reach the safety standards we require.
But he wants us to have sub-safety and sub food standards. We won’t allow
growth hormone beef into our markets, nor chlorine washed chicken, those
are our standards. Produce without those practices, and we can talk.
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