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Philippe Negrin
Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 01 August 2007
Location: France
Posts: 2644
Posted: 07 January 2022 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

Democracy was an interesting experiment. Sadly it only works if the votershave sense and education. Otherwise it leads to what is happening right now everywhere in the world. You're right Petter...Authoritarian / neo fascism is spreading all around the world...even France is at risk this year...  
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Bruce Eaton
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Joined: 09 June 2019
Location: United States
Posts: 31
Posted: 07 January 2022 at 8:46am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Criminal prosecution at Federal and State levels are still available with no concern of double jeopardy. Mitch McConnell even said so at the conclusion of the impeachment.

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Steven Myers
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Joined: 10 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5632
Posted: 07 January 2022 at 9:20am | IP Logged | 3 post reply

The far right militants think that when they rise up the majority of Americans will cheer them on. Yet more and more Americans are declaring themselves Independent of the two parties. Any real effort of the fringe to take over will fail. But it could get nasty.
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Mark Waldman
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Joined: 16 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1273
Posted: 07 January 2022 at 9:20am | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Even Putin didn't know having his compromised game show host candidate run would bear these kinds of fruits. It's funny how serious America took the Cold War but rolled over for this. smh
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ron bailey
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Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 943
Posted: 07 January 2022 at 10:00am | IP Logged | 5 post reply

"Does Trump already having been impeached for his involvement in this protect him under double jeopardy laws?"
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It shouldn't, an impeachment is a political process for the removal of a president from office. It shouldn't preclude from any criminal prosecution of say, TREASON. 
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Charles Valderrama
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4727
Posted: 07 January 2022 at 10:53am | IP Logged | 6 post reply

With everything that's happened... I'm a little surprised there hasn't been a revival of Fox's "24" series. Kiefer Sutherland's Jack Bauer is ideal in this type of situation!!

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Andrew Bitner
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Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7497
Posted: 07 January 2022 at 11:08am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Impeachment is a political act, not a criminal one. Double jeopardy doesn't apply.

As for 1/6/21, I work about four blocks from the Capitol. There was real fear that what started there might spread. I was working from home that day but a number of my colleagues were not. It was bad.

Not only that, but a number of these absolute assholes were staying at a Holiday Inn not far from where I live. 

We have to remind ourselves that this is a loud and violent *minority* that can and must be opposed. There are more of us than them and we have to exert the power of a pissed-off majority to make sure that they lose hard and continue to lose. Unless we decide we're going to fight for OUR vision of what America is and can be, we'll lose it to THEIR vision--and then we are well and truly fucked.
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Dave Kopperman
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Joined: 27 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3170
Posted: 07 January 2022 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

The two biggest stones in our path as a nation:

  1. It's asymmetric warfare. Far right-wingers are the ones with the guns and are increasingly egging each other on to use them to further their aims (though it's somewhat circular being that one of their aims is simply to use their guns).
  2. A distressing percentage of the military and police force are actually on the side of the insurrection (including those who participated in the Capitol Riot on the day of). They're supposed to be the people who protect the nation from these elements. It's one of the reasons I was relieved that the military wasn't called in to assist the Capitol Police on the 6th - the not-impossible outcome of some armed soldiers joining in the attack rather than helping to rout it.

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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4594
Posted: 07 January 2022 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

The thing that panics me is that you get to a point where some states have totally slanted electors in place alongside the intimidating poll watchers and all the other dogs let loose like hours long line ups in some districts specially calculated to maximize one party's representation yatta-yatta, and it would wend it's way up to the broken slanted SCOTUS. There is no backstop. Except right this moment if the department of justice starts to show some real teeth and actually imposes consequences outside that supremely buggered court.

It's death by a thousand stupid paper cuts, yet it seems to still keep working. Manchin + Kavanaugh + McCarthy + Barrett +Fox/Newsmax/America One and running out the clock in every, even implausible deniability, way imaginable to get to midterms and Trump gets that shitty toe hold... then a foot... then there goes the Reichstag (ANTIFA and BLM, 'believe me') and chancellor for life due to the crisis caused by them libruls? A dent to the MAGA numbers via coivd can't be big enough when you are into sheer transparent crookedness in enough key positions.

One year and just not enough has been done to counter. Is the justice department still critically handicapped in some way like your post office? This is just taking too long, it's going to be razor thin close again, and it might be the Hollywood ending where MacGruber or whoever doesn't quite make it with the chewing gum wrapper to defuse the bomb.

Once you are outright calling people with Trump flags assaulting police 'patriots' and getting away with saying others are politicizing it you in Orwell land... and Elmo just blew his nut over another muppet demanding it's pet rock be given a cookie!

Watch SCOTUS decide vaccines, tests and mask mandates are tyrannical and unconstitutional and then we're below 50/50 odds. By that point it will take real heavy lifting and definite dirtying of hands. It's a long road back, let's hope to see the start of that road...

Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 07 January 2022 at 10:44pm
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Jason Czeskleba
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Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4549
Posted: 08 January 2022 at 3:03am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

 Jozef Brandt wrote:
After watching my home city of Portland burn every night for six months those cosplayers in the capitol didn't even move the needle for me.

Those "cosplayers" invaded the US Capitol in a Presidentially-sanctioned attempt to use violence to subvert a free and fair election.  If you can't see how that is a FAR more serious threat to America than urban rioting and unfocused property destruction, then you're being willfully obtuse. 
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Joe Zhang
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
Posted: 08 January 2022 at 3:37am | IP Logged | 11 post reply

It depends on whose point of view. If it were your business, or your place of employment being looted and burned, while your mayor was bending over backwards to appease rioters, perhaps that kind of government isn't worth protecting. 

Edited by Joe Zhang on 08 January 2022 at 3:40am
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Shawn Kane
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Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
Posted: 08 January 2022 at 7:15am | IP Logged | 12 post reply

My take on it is what is the definition of "Their" vision of America vs. "Our" vision of America. I've often stated that I lean further right than probably just about everyone in this group but I have "conservative" friends who are shocked that I don't share every belief that they have. That kind of tribalism is hard to avoid today thanks to things like cable news and social media. People don't have conversations with those they don't agree with anymore, they just argue or quit communicating with them entirely. I'm not saying that there aren't bad people in the country but the extremists who flooded Washington D.C.* that day don't represent the average person on the right just as the riots that happened around the George Floyd murder don't represent the person on the left. Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, will tell us otherwise but unless your neighbor is truly a bad person, conversation and friendship is still something that can exist.

*My friend's son was there that day with a young conservative group and wasn't involved in any rioting so not everyone. He actually has an interesting story about a group that came up to them before all the chaos started and tried to get them to rush the Capitol Building.
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