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Michael Penn
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Joined: 12 April 2006
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Posts: 12590
Posted: 06 September 2023 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

> Until you can prove to me the existence or NON-existence of ANY kind of deity, I can only acknowledge the inconclusive evidence of either. <

A statement engendering many questions. What does "until" mean to you? Seems like the existence of a deity would be one of the most important discoveries imaginable -- so, what do you suggest we, the human race, do while this "until" period continues? Nothing? If something, what? Leading to, what kind of proof would demonstrate a deity exists? Or is such proof right now inconceivable? But then how could anybody be working on proving this? And if we are to prove whether a deity exists, what do we mean by this word "deity"? Don't we have to know what we are trying to find evidence for? And only just one deity? Two? Ten? A googolplex to the power of a googolplex of gods? (Why not?) And... what extant evidence for the existence of god(s) is "inconclusive"?



Edited by Michael Penn on 06 September 2023 at 3:04pm
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ron bailey
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Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 989
Posted: 06 September 2023 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

Basically it all boils down to "we know what we know until we know more/better", and right now in human history we don't know much.
So it is human nature to substitute the for the void of what we don't know with that which might comfort us, as it is to reject it on more logical grounds.
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Sheila Friedland
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Joined: 11 July 2022
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Posts: 57
Posted: 06 September 2023 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

Our senses and common sense are all well and good, no doubt. (Though common sense seems to dicate different things to each person. . .) But an ant has it's own senses and common sense and likely assumes that's the whole shebang, too.

We don't know; we'll probably never know.  At least not in any sense of "knowing" that we understand now.

To believe is to be human.  If not in God, then perhaps in the Fantastic Four. . .


Edited by Sheila Friedland on 06 September 2023 at 4:44pm
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132796
Posted: 06 September 2023 at 4:56pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

We don't know; we'll probably never know. At least not in any sense of "knowing" that we understand now.

•••

Sorry, but to me that’s a cop-out answer. We don’t know because we can’t know? How about we don’t know because there isn’t anything to know?

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Michael Penn
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Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
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Posted: 06 September 2023 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Also, "we know what we know until we know more/better" is merely a truism.
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Brian Morris
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Joined: 25 September 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 719
Posted: 06 September 2023 at 10:29pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Talking about God's business model Mr. Byrne. I loved when he was holding Oral Roberts hostage and if he didn't get a certain amount of money God was going to take Oral home.                                              My question was God in the New Jersey/New York Mafia?
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Steven Queen
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Joined: 28 February 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 906
Posted: 07 September 2023 at 10:42am | IP Logged | 7 post reply

Science describes existence (fairly) accurately, but it doesn't really explain a darn thing.  How.  Not why.

As such, it alone does not entirely satisfy or scratch the primal human itch.  It's no Answer to the eternal questions---understanding it just helps get the wash done.

It's not Science or Religion.  They aren't even in the same wheel house really.



Edited by Steven Queen on 07 September 2023 at 10:43am
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132796
Posted: 07 September 2023 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 8 post reply

There is no “why”.
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Andrew Bitner
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Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7515
Posted: 07 September 2023 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 9 post reply

Just because we conceive of a question like "why do we exist?" doesn't mean the universe is obliged to have an answer for us.
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Steven Queen
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Joined: 28 February 2020
Location: United States
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Posted: 07 September 2023 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Fair enough.  But let's just leave poor old misconstrued "Science" out of it.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132796
Posted: 07 September 2023 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

The existential dilemma: we’re alone in the universe, life has no meaning, death is inevitable.

Embrace this, and sailing will be considerably smoother.

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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15890
Posted: 07 September 2023 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply


 QUOTE:
It's not Science or Religion.  They aren't even in the same wheel house really.

Well exactly. Science invites questions; it demands, in fact, that we scrutinise what we think we know, to make sure it stands up when tested.

Religion, meanwhile, doesn't want questions. It demands, in fact, that nothing is scrutinised. If something doesn't stand up, then is it wrong? No! More faith is needed, that's all. When something really doesn't stand up, such as how a monotheism has more than one deity, then it is a divine mystery.


Edited by Peter Martin on 07 September 2023 at 1:50pm
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