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Topic: Hey, Bible Debunkers! Post Reply | Post New Topic
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Paul Kimball
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Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2162
Posted: 10 September 2023 at 1:59am | IP Logged | 1 post reply

when you says that it's akin to parenting, then in that scenario a parent
punishes their child for all eternity for their mistakes and that's benevolent?

Because no way can someone tell me an eternity of punishment is a fit
sentence for perhaps 10 years of bad deeds. Even though the bad deeds
wouldn't be sufficient to merit eternal punishment(Saul/Paul) if you would
just accept Christ?

Of is it that Hell is the destination and that only by accepting Christ can you
escape this? If so then Hell is beyond God's control even though she's all
powerful?

Or you're choosing to punish yourself for all Eternity by not accepting
Christ? So it's like God is your big brother telling you "stop hitting yourself"?
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Paul Kimball
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Joined: 21 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2162
Posted: 10 September 2023 at 2:01am | IP Logged | 2 post reply

sorry for the ramble, I hardly ever post or even read these religious threads for
a reason, they drive me crazy. It always comes back to either you don't have
enough faith or because God said so.
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 131970
Posted: 10 September 2023 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

“stop hitting yourself”

•••

Perfect analogy!

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Michael Penn
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Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12376
Posted: 10 September 2023 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

> if you would just accept Christ <

Practically every word in that conditional clause is problematic for sundry reasons -- and not least of all that, even if you blip over some of the most severe difficulties regarding logic, science, history, etc., and you sincerely want to "accept"... just whose "Christ" is it? I mean, if this is a contract to escape Hell, then you'd really need to know the offeror actually can perform...!
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Steven Queen
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Joined: 28 February 2020
Location: United States
Posts: 880
Posted: 10 September 2023 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Found this (random theologian)

 QUOTE:
What I believe God is runs counter to many people's idea of what God is. God is fully fair and just and compassionate, but He is also a Judge and Lawgiver. He gives laws and He holds people accountable to them, according to their knowledge and understanding. And I believe that God will punish those that need punishment. But, I believe, because He is truly fair and just, He will punish them ONLY as much as they really deserve, no more, no less. Not endlessly and forever and ever. that idea came from the Greeks and Roman's mythology, when the Bible was translated into Greek and Latin. Biblical "hell", sheol or the grave, became hades, the Greek place of the dead, where souls were tortured endlessly. What we have is a mistranslation over the years, from the language Yahshua (Jesus) spoke, Aramaic, using the word awlma, for permanent, as in once something is done, it is done, and over with, permanently, to Greek, hades, endless torment roasting over flames and poked by demons with pitchforks.

So to answer this in MY opinion (and I am by no means alone), God will end the existence of those who deserve punishment, right after whatever punishment they deserve is over with. The idea of a God torturing souls endlessly and mercilessly roasting in flames has driven more people to atheism and hate for God and Christianity than anything else, besides perhaps representatives of the church acting like Satan.

I was not aware that Hell was such a conceptual line-in-the-sand.

A choice between completely ceasing to exist vs. some sort of continued altered existence after death (with God) is generally more palatable, apparently.  That works too I suppose---no need to have anyone suffer.


Edited by Steven Queen on 10 September 2023 at 2:38pm
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John Byrne

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Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 131970
Posted: 10 September 2023 at 2:28pm | IP Logged | 6 post reply

Reminds me of times when I’ve been asked what I will do when finally confronted by an angry Jehovah.

I ask what the questioner will do when confronted by Zeus.

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Brian Miller
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Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 30777
Posted: 10 September 2023 at 3:01pm | IP Logged | 7 post reply

I’m HOPING Odin is there when I go beyond this mortal shell!
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 131970
Posted: 10 September 2023 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 8 post reply

Reminds me of an essay Isaac Asimov wrote, in which he said he could not find any version of the afterlife that presented an appealing eternity. Even in the halls of Valhalla, he imagined, the cry of “Pork again?!?” would be heard.
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Scott Gray
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Joined: 16 August 2012
Posts: 19
Posted: 12 September 2023 at 12:11pm | IP Logged | 9 post reply

"Reality is whatever doesn't go away when you stop believing in it."

- Philip K Dick
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John Byrne

Grumpy Old Guy

Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 131970
Posted: 12 September 2023 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | 10 post reply

Driving yesterday and saw a sign in front of a church:

God forgives EVERYONE. No exceptions!

So…… Hitler, Pol Pot, John Wayne Gacey, Sandy Hook shooter, Jack the Ripper. All forgiven.

Feel like raping a three year old? (Gender optional.). No problem. God will forgive.

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Rebecca Jansen
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Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4342
Posted: 12 September 2023 at 5:26pm | IP Logged | 11 post reply

If there is a creator he/she/them can speak directly (and preferably not just to one chosen individual) or all bets are off in terms of believing in them. It seems the situation has stood like this for quite awhile now doesn't it? Even the Christiane Amanpour and Howard Stern shows can't seem to get through to an agent for a booking!

I think people interpreting what God has to say or speaking for him/her/them are some of the worst sinners of all so not prepared to make guesses in that direction ever myself.

I see no holes in this philosophy, plus to quote Curtis Mayfield, "if there's a hell below we're all gonna go!"
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Brian Floyd
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Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 8300
Posted: 12 September 2023 at 11:40pm | IP Logged | 12 post reply

There are three things from the Bible that I just don't get:

1. How does God go from being a full of rage, strike down anyone at the drop of a hat and punishes innocents along with the guilty (the Flood and the Plagues, for example) hothead in the Old Testament to a loving, caring father figure in the New? Got a better spin doctor or publicist?

2. Already mentioned by others: Hell, which correct me if I'm wrong, is more or less an invention of the Catholic church. Like others have said, an eternity of punishment for bad deeds that hardly merit it for most. 

3. If God is such a nice guy, and so caring and loving, I have two words for you: Childhood Cancer. I was at a Red Sox game where they had dozens of chidren who are cancer survivors come out on the field, and things like that break my heart. (I almost cry everytime I see a commercial for St. Jude's) Free will aside, there's no reasonable explanation any diety can provide for something like that!


Edited by Brian Floyd on 12 September 2023 at 11:42pm
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