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Andrew Bitner
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Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 08 May 2024 at 9:13pm | IP Logged | 1
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I posted on Facebook that I think Angel was left behind as the Marvel Universe expanded. Originally, he had a pretty good ability--winged flight--in a time when not a lot of heroes or villains could fly on their own, sans jetpacks, hammers, etc. It came with the drawback of needing his wings free and unencumbered, but heck, just about everybody had one challenge to deal with.
Time went on and more characters started flying. Even though he could keep pace with a jet, Angel sort of... fell behind the curve. He was in the Champions and the Defenders, he came back to help the X-Men from time to time, but where the other original X-Men had miniseries or major arcs, Warren Worthington III didn't.
In the '80s, in X-MEN, he was made into a Horseman of Apocalypse, with artificial wings that flung metal feathers. He gradually shifted back to being his original self--with a new power or two introduced here or there, which never seemed to stick--and most recently he was in the Krakoa-era X-CORP and will be in the revived X-FACTOR.
For all that, though, I wonder if he's a character who's struggling to be relevant. Wings and wealth sort of sums him up--but shouldn't there be more?
I'm curious to know what people think about this. What might be done to build up Angel?
Edited by Andrew Bitner on 08 May 2024 at 9:14pm
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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 08 May 2024 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | 2
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Always with superheroes it should be celebrating how they can do things better than your regular Joe. Writers needs to avoid making some kind of arms war comparison with other super heroes. Claremont was pretty good at this. If you take a step back and think about writing someone who can fly like a bird, has super sharp eyes, light bones and various other adaptations related to flying, along with vast wealth, there's a fair bit to be getting on with.
The archangel thing was falling into the trap of thinking he must have some offensive power to be interesting, but it's no so. They just needed to focus on portraying the cool aspects of what he could already do.
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
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| Posted: 08 May 2024 at 9:47pm | IP Logged | 3
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Angel is a cool character and Neal Adams proved he had the visual appeal to be front and center given the right material.
I think he never got the right combination of writer/artist/title to take full advantage and the whole "Archangel" thing was unfortunate from the start, imho.
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Athanasios Kollias
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Joined: 27 September 2021
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| Posted: 09 May 2024 at 8:46am | IP Logged | 4
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I think Claremont disliked him and thus fell from favor.Come to think of it, Claremont must have disliked every single member of the original X-Men. He got rid of all of them eventually!
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 09 May 2024 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 5
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Let’s avoid mind reading, shall we?
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Rick Whiting
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Joined: 22 April 2004
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| Posted: 09 May 2024 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | 6
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Always with superheroes it should be celebrating how they can do things better than your regular Joe. Writers needs to avoid making some kind of arms war comparison with other super heroes. Claremont was pretty good at this. If you take a step back and think about writing someone who can fly like a bird, has super sharp eyes, light bones and various other adaptations related to flying, along with vast wealth, there's a fair bit to be getting on with.
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Speaking of Claremont and Angel, in issue 11 of the Excalibur series that was set in Genoshia that Claremont wrote 20 years ago, Claremont showed just how effective and cool Angel's powers are in a fight. That single issue changed my mind about Angel being weak and ineffective in a fight against powerful opponents or against opponents with high tech weapons. Claremont emphasized the fact that Warren is basically a powerful large bird with the powers of various bird species. He also pointed out in the story that Warren was far stronger than a normal human and how by using his wings and his arms he could hold up a lot of weight, like a roof and and other debrie and rubble.
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Rick Whiting
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Joined: 22 April 2004
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| Posted: 09 May 2024 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | 7
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I think Claremont disliked him and thus fell from favor.
_________________
Read Excalibur #11 from 20 years ago and then come back and tell me if you still think Claremont dislikes Angel.
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Charles Valderrama
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| Posted: 09 May 2024 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 8
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I think the whole "Archangel" storyline proved that the X-Men office tried to make Warren a more compelling character,
Like it or not, it's hard to consider him "shortchanged"... at least for me.
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 09 May 2024 at 4:43pm | IP Logged | 9
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Warren’s position as a second class citizen was probably seeded when he was shoved off into the Champions with Bobby. You’d think the X-Men connection would have bought some street cred, but….
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Athanasios Kollias
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| Posted: 09 May 2024 at 6:05pm | IP Logged | 10
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Read Excalibur #11 from 20 years ago and then come back and tell me if you still think Claremont dislikes Angel.
+++
Angel must be in 4-5 pages of the story. What is your point exactly?
Angel was included in the original Claremont run because JB wanted to bring back the original X-Men. As soon as JB left, Angel left as well. He brought him back for the Morlocks story during Smith's run and barely spoke.
Claremont obviously (imo) didn't like Cyclops. That didn't stop him from delivering 3-4 cool Cyclops scenes, after JB left, but it doesn't mean he liked him enough to keep in the book.
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John Byrne
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| Posted: 09 May 2024 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | 11
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I don’t recall Chris expressing any negative sentiments about Cyclops. And since Scott was my favorite, I am pretty sure I’d remember.
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Michael Penn
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| Posted: 09 May 2024 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 12
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Mr. Claremont changed certain characters from what they'd been, e.g., Magneto. Perhaps one might say that this indicated he didn't care for the established nature of the character and thus (radically) remade it.
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